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#18039 - 02/06/09 02:15 PM Help a new fella out
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Hello everyone, my name is Andy and I'm new here.

I am not too familiar with timber framing and post and beam designs so I am seeking some help in designing a barn.

My hobby is building farm equipment to scale, and I would like to build a scale barn. The barn I want to build will represent a 36'x56' gambrel barn with stalls and a hay loft. I have mocked up a drawing on Google Sketch up and would like some advise on how to improve it. My main concern with this design is that the two queen posts (I think that's what it is called) just stop at the beam and do not follow through to the ground. I have seen a couple gambrel barns this way but is it safe for this size barn?

Also, what size timber should I be using? I was thinking 8"x8" for the posts, 6"x10" for the beams, 6"x8" rafters, and 3"x6" loft joists and roof purlins.

Please feel free to criticize my design, it will help a lot if you did.

Thank you,
Andy


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#18042 - 02/06/09 05:06 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: AAK]
mo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 850
Loc: Charleston, SC
Welcome Andy.

First off, nicely done for a hobby.

Secondly, there are others around here that are more experienced on this, but I will give it a go.

Yes the queen posts being directly over the ground posts would be stronger. Of course this would change your pitch since you obviously want 12' for stalls. (From what Ive read you want no less for the horses). Or you could change the height of the upper plate.

It also looks like (might be the perspective) that your loft is taller than your ground floor.

The connection at the queen posts (in my opinion) should be changed. That tie should probably drop so the queen posts join with the plate. It also looks that some larger bracing (more run) would be helpful.

I know you are wanting to build a scaled model (thus joinery is probably not an issue) but the connection between the lower pitch, plate, and upper rafter has always got me thinking. I think this might work. Extended tenon through queen to rafter.



Anyway, hopefully some others will chime in. This gambrel stuff has gotten a lot of discussion before.

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#18045 - 02/06/09 07:44 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: mo]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
I think the queen post could work there. I would drop the tie along with Mo, a foot should do it. No need for the king post.

Visit an existing barn and build it just as you see it and to scale, Do this three times and send your results to TTRAG. A great way to document a building and you achieve your goal with some preservation on top.

Tim

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#18046 - 02/06/09 09:59 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: mo]
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: mo
Welcome Andy.

First off, nicely done for a hobby.

Secondly, there are others around here that are more experienced on this, but I will give it a go.

Yes the queen posts being directly over the ground posts would be stronger. Of course this would change your pitch since you obviously want 12' for stalls. (From what Ive read you want no less for the horses). Or you could change the height of the upper plate.

It also looks like (might be the perspective) that your loft is taller than your ground floor.

The connection at the queen posts (in my opinion) should be changed. That tie should probably drop so the queen posts join with the plate. It also looks that some larger bracing (more run) would be helpful.

I know you are wanting to build a scaled model (thus joinery is probably not an issue) but the connection between the lower pitch, plate, and upper rafter has always got me thinking. I think this might work. Extended tenon through queen to rafter.



Anyway, hopefully some others will chime in. This gambrel stuff has gotten a lot of discussion before.


Thank you for the reply. You are correct, I am trying to keep 12' stalls. I am quickly finding out that these gambrel roofs are not as simple as they seem. I am trying to keep the 12' stalls while also trying to keep the roof slope around 7-12 and 12-7. This is a challenge for me.

Thanks a ton for that sketch, I can see clearly what you explained. However, how would I attach the upper rafter to that?

And yes, as it is now, the loft is taller than the ground floor. I looked at some post and beam gambrel barns and it looks to me that most lofts are taller (to me anyway) than the ground floor. Again, I am not familiar with this stuff, so I definitely could be wrong.



^^^ Here's a pic of a gambrel that looks like the loft is taller than the ground floor. This is actually a 36' wide horse barn with 12' stalls, but I kind of didn't want to copy someone else work, but I may have to do that. I am not all that crazy about the roof pitch on that one either.

Thanks a lot for the help, much appreciated.

Andy

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#18047 - 02/06/09 10:01 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: TIMBEAL]
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Thanks for the information Tim. You're going to have to bare with me with some terminology. What is Mo? Then perhaps I will understand your suggestion more clearly.


Thanks,
Andy

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#18049 - 02/07/09 07:18 AM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: AAK]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Andy, Mo is the second poster on this thread. I was agreeing with his comments.

If you are using 8x8 post make the tie beams 8x10's not 6x8's. You mentioned purlins, I don't see any common purlins in your sketchup. The purlin plate on top of the queen posts could be sized to 8x8's, as well as the tie between the queens. The joist are a bit small for the 11' span. As this is a model you can utilize full length stock with no problem, 56' top plates etc.

What scale would you be using?

Tim

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#18051 - 02/07/09 11:31 AM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: TIMBEAL]
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
Andy, Mo is the second poster on this thread. I was agreeing with his comments.


Oh, okay. Sorry I was a little slow to realize that.

Okay, so I have some changes to work on, thanks for the suggestions.

Tim, the scale I am using is 1/64. Yes, a bit small but this is the scale I am used to building in.




^^ That's a Morton shop I built in 1/64 about a year ago.

Thanks for the help fellas, I think I am getting closer to coming up with something that will work.


Andy

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#18053 - 02/07/09 01:38 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: AAK]
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Here's a quick sketch of what I came up with. I have not put in the knee braces yet. Let me know what you think.



Thanks,
Andy


Edited by AAK (02/07/09 01:40 PM)

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#18091 - 02/09/09 08:59 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: AAK]
MTF Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 67
Loc: CT
below is one we did a few years ago, 36x50. I like a little less in the gambrel, but that's just me.

have fun!

Pete


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#18098 - 02/10/09 05:58 PM Re: Help a new fella out [Re: MTF]
AAK Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 10
Pete, that's a very nice barn, I really like that. Is it a horse barn?


Andy

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