Cool Tim. How is the performance? There is a pioneering straw bale man in France I believe who is dipping his bales in clay slip prior to stacking. It seems like the wall would be pretty lumpy because you can't use your weed eater or Lancelot to straighten things up....(I don't like the lumpy look

I am a SIP fan, but not exclusively to other systems. I am in NYC metro area where full (or walkout) basements are expected, and labor costs are among the highest in the world. There are "Comparative market values" that have to be considered for resale, as "Real Estate" is a huge part of the economy here with the average time for change in ownership/sale of a house was under 4 yrs before the Recession. I emphasize the better value of a longer term investment of higher quality, better performing, lower maintenance, energy efficiency. Of course that eliminates "house flippers" and pushes people to "think smaller" than is the norm and hopefully consider what they really need in a house and home, and how to use limited financial and sweat equity resources. We all know that TF building is a small market sector that we encourage to grow - join the TFG and pay your dues!
I'll say again, that my FAVORITE TFG rendezvous project was 1989 Habitat for Humanity hose building in York PA. We used SIPs there. Get a copy of "Raising the Roof" from the Guild online store - inspiring and instructional.
Foundations/basements can be thermal mass components, easily making use of active or passive solar gain. They can be used for cooling moderation in the summer. Also, all local and neighboring utility companies give incentives for off-peak use including ETS systems.
Use of SIPs is labor efficient, energy efficient, well engineered for structural and Energy Code compliance. I think we have an array of great SIP producer companies who are in it for the long run who are innovating, refining, responding to environmental concerns, and provide great customer service. SIPs on a TF makes for rapid enclosure and easy, quick weather protection, plus if it's winter it's lots easier to bring the inside temp to a minimal comfort (thus efficiency level) for subcontractors, mechanicals and finish work to proceed.
We stopped using urethane foam core panels after the 1st time because of environmental and worker/worksite safety and waste problems.
We switched to EPS panels, early on learning to use cut-offs and cut-outs efficiently. We used our dust/chip collector and Sears W/D vacs to collect crumbled panel "Stuff" on job sites and "reused" it for various insulating purposes. An easy use was poring bagfuls of EPS crumbles from inside the attic of a church down into the voids of the hollow concrete block exterior walls while we were doing structural repairs to the steeple and some of the roof trusses. We won one of the earliest NYSTAR energy efficiency awards in our area for a house we built in Putnam County NY 1993 - '94. From the start of the 1/4 mile long driveway up the mountainside, to clearing site for house and septic system, and for construction of TF house enclosed w SIPs, full basement and stick framed 2-car garage, we took away 8 large garbage bags for disposal as non reusable, non recyclable waste. 8 garb bags for a whole new house - no dumpsters on site! Trees were harvested and milled into flooring and interior trim lumber and for firewood. Compost piles were started on site and used throughout he progress of the job and owners continued beyond. Most of the waste was plastic wrap from various materials and component packaging plus from electricians installation of wiring. We used a HRV system, gentle slow forced air circulation using electric heated water, made and stored during off-peak hours 12 hrs/day 7 days/week. It is sized to provide DHW also. Very comfortable and clean indoor environment w low cost of operation.
I like solid poured concrete w lots of steel for foundations, so we have used 2" x 2' x 8' T&G expanded polystyrene for exterior or interior foundation insulation. We always put sheetmetal flashing termite/vermin barriers under bottom of first level of SIPs.
I was inspired by Helen and Scott Nearing, "The Maple Sugar Book" etc for back to the land homesteading, have done community barn and house raisings. I have built stone foundations. I have done lots of retro-fitting of old buildings. And I know several people who have done straw bale houses - all "out in the sticks". Maybe it will become more popular with the current high unemployment and low availability of bank loans. The financial and economic systems we live under anger me lots, for many reasons - topic for a different thread...
Where to find clay ..... how to convince local building code officials straw bale w clay plaster will meet code ...? Enough for now, hope this is helpful. Going back outside to finish some new locust Craftsman style posts for handrail at steps and landing to my kitchen door. Handrail to be black walnut profiled on my shaper. Locust and walnut grown and harvested and milled within 25 miles of my house. Then continue on an engine swap into my International flatbed dump.
Looking fwd to reading everyone's posts on this topic.
Steve

I am a SIP fan, but not exclusively to other systems. I am in NYC metro area where full (or walkout) basements are expected, and labor costs are among the highest in the world. There are "Comparative market values" that have to be considered for resale, as "Real Estate" is a huge part of the economy here with the average time for change in ownership/sale of a house was under 4 yrs before the Recession. I emphasize the better value of a longer term investment of higher quality, better performing, lower maintenance, energy efficiency. Of course that eliminates "house flippers" and pushes people to "think smaller" than is the norm and hopefully consider what they really need in a house and home, and how to use limited financial and sweat equity resources. We all know that TF building is a small market sector that we encourage to grow - join the TFG and pay your dues!
I'll say again, that my FAVORITE TFG rendezvous project was 1989 Habitat for Humanity house building in York PA. We used SIPs there. Get a copy of "Raising the Roof" from the Guild online store - inspiring and instructional.
Foundations/basements can be thermal mass components, easily making use of active or passive solar gain. They can be used for cooling moderation in the summer. Also, all local and neighboring utility companies give incentives for off-peak use including ETS systems.
Use of SIPs is labor efficient, energy efficient, well engineered for structural and Energy Code compliance. I think we have an array of great SIP producer companies who are in it for the long run who are innovating, refining, responding to environmental concerns, and provide great customer service. SIPs on a TF makes for rapid enclosure and easy, quick weather protection, plus if it's winter it's lots easier to bring the inside temp to a minimal comfort (thus efficiency level) for subcontractors, mechanicals and finish work to proceed.
We stopped using urethane foam core panels after the 1st time because of environmental and worker/worksite safety and waste problems.
We switched to EPS panels, early on learning to use cut-offs and cut-outs efficiently. We used our dust/chip collector and Sears W/D vacs to collect crumbled panel "Stuff" on job sites and "reused" it for various insulating purposes. An easy use was poring bagfuls of EPS crumbles from inside the attic of a church down into the voids of the hollow concrete block exterior walls while we were doing structural repairs to the steeple and some of the roof trusses. We won one of the earliest NYSTAR energy efficiency awards in our area for a house we built in Putnam County NY 1993 - '94. From the start of the 1/4 mile long driveway up the mountainside, to clearing site for house and septic system, and for construction of TF house enclosed w SIPs, full basement and stick framed 2-car garage, we took away 8 large garbage bags for disposal as non reusable, non recyclable waste. 8 garb bags for a whole new house - no dumpsters on site! Trees were harvested and milled into flooring and interior trim lumber and for firewood. Compost piles were started on site and used throughout he progress of the job and owners continued beyond. Most of the waste was plastic wrap from various materials and component packaging plus from electricians installation of wiring. We used a HRV system, gentle slow forced air circulation using electric heated water, made and stored during off-peak hours 12 hrs/day 7 days/week. It is sized to provide DHW also. Very comfortable and clean indoor environment w low cost of operation.
I like solid poured concrete w lots of steel for foundations, so we have used 2" x 2' x 8' T&G expanded polystyrene for exterior or interior foundation insulation. We always put sheetmetal flashing termite/vermin barriers under bottom of first level of SIPs.
I was inspired by Helen and Scott Nearing, "The Maple Sugar Book" etc for back to the land homesteading, have done community barn and house raisings. I have built stone foundations. I have done lots of retro-fitting of old buildings. And I know several people who have done straw bale houses - all "out in the sticks". Maybe it will become more popular with the current high unemployment and low availability of bank loans. The financial and economic systems we live under anger me lots, for many reasons - topic for a different thread...
Where to find clay ..... how to convince local building code officials straw bale w clay plaster will meet code ...? Enough for now, hope this is helpful. Going back outside to finish some new locust Craftsman style posts for handrail at steps and landing to my kitchen door. Handrail to be black walnut profiled on my shaper. Locust and walnut grown and harvested and milled within 25 miles of my house. Then continue on an engine swap into my International flatbed dump.
Looking fwd to reading everyone's posts on this topic.
Steve

Tim,
U-value is the inverse of R-value. I've seen it mostly used w window values. e.g. a window or sheet of thermo-pane with an R-value of 3 will have a U-value of 0.33.
Steve

Hey Mike,
How about snow, for igloo walls?
Also sawdust was the vernacular insulating material of choice for ice houses for 100+ yrs around here. Most I've seen are dbl studded 12" thick walls. I've seen small backyard farmstead icehouses built on top of a deep pit into the ground as well as commercial icehouses 36' x 80' w 18'h sidewalls. When no longer used and empty they are legendary in local Fire Department memory if subjected to arson. With good roof maint and overhangs to keep walls dry there is no performance degradation. Sawdust fill could be considered precursor to various blown in and sticky cellulose forms.

What else? fur, leaves. feathers, dried horse manure?
Steve

I have been baffled for some time as to what the various dirt pits are around my abandoned farm land. They seem like old cellar holes but not enough rocks, the dirt is pulled up and around the pit. Could be an old ice house spot as another choice. They vary in size, most are the size of a small car, the hole that is.

I am putting single pane, old glass, salvaged windows in the new section I am adding on to my existing house. I will put insulated shutters or some such thing on them if I find them cold.

The performance of the straw cabin is OK. We do not use it a lot in the winter. The children and friends spent the night in it this past winter. A fire was build earlier in the day and it was fine for them through the night, I just asked and they said it was fine no problem. That is coming from a 15 year old with other things on his mind. I want to believe a clay sealing layer would cut down on air infiltration and keep the straw smell to a minimum, maybe.

I would not worry about the rough texture, as I would still board the side walls and stud and side the exterior, you would not see the infill system. Yes, I would have to think of the dryablity of the clay coated bale against the boarded wall. I suspect it would dry as it is not the complete thickness of the wall which is soaked and needs drying. It may call for a test wall.

As for SIPs, I would rather play with a different material. They sure do have their sensible side, no arguments there, I like the wrap and strap system as well, this is what I am using on my plank walled addition. I switched due to the time frame of the project, there is none, and I can apply foam to the walls any time it arises. I am still planning on clay infilled interior walls, chips and slip in a studded wall with clay plaster.

Tim

Hi Tim,

I have similar pits to the ones that you describe in my woodlot and these are generally described in archeological terms as being sawpits. Exactly how these pits were used in the conversion process is not completely clear nor have I yet seen a photograph or illustration of how this worked but the top of the pit rim tends to be leveled to accomodate bearers. I also have one pit that is only 2 feet deep and might well be a hewing pit so that the log does not need to be raised but can be simply rolled at ground level into position for hewing.

I can take some photos if you want.

Regards

Ken Hume

Sure Ken, I would like to see even another possibility. Photos here or e-mail. Thanks.

I have been picking rocks on our blueberry field and filling some of the holes in.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Woodland archeology is a field that is just emerging and until you have a clearer idea of what these pits are all about it might be prudent not to fill them such that as much of the original feature and evidence is preserve (that's preserved and not conserved).

I shall search my archive for photos.

Regards

Ken Hume

Ken, I think we are drifting off topic, but I don't care. I have had local historical minded folks come and look at the pits/humps from the local university. Over the years they have been used as dumps. I see the rocks/boulder as a form of preservation, no one will stuff other junk into it any more and I can drive safely over the field. I have thought about this for 18 years, as the first rocks went into it I cringed. I have one set aside and have not touched it other than keeping the brush from growing up.

It will be interesting to see a photo for comparison.

Tim