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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #18677 03/19/09 04:51 PM
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OurBarns1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ken Hume


I am no nail expert but a thought that often passes through my mind is that generally the grain direction of one piece being nailed to another is at 90 degrees e.g. in the case of floor boards being nailed to joists. That being the case the nail has to be able to perform both with and across the grain so what would be the preferred nail orientation when nailing down floor boards ?



I would say preferred nail orientation would go with the floor board's grain. The joist is the more substantial timber and could resist cross-grain interference better than the thinner floor board... I'd say orient a cut nail parallel with the floor board.

(There. I think I'm done posting on this topic for the day!!)


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: OurBarns1] #18682 03/20/09 12:32 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi everyone tonight

Don , Ken:

by all means the proper way to orient a cut nail is with the grain of in this case flooring. The same is true no matter what medium that you are nailing to one another usually it is the surface cladding that the nail stays oriented with the grain.

To answer your question about what the term-- "Butt Cog" refers to well here is my explanation.

In Traditional timberframing the "Butt" or the lower end of the rafter that sits on the Upper plate usually stays in its place due to a "cog" fashioned on the end of the rafter. This "cog" has a 90 degree leading edge that sits down in a mortise usually about 2.5" from the exterior edge of the plate. This cog sometimes extends across the full width of the bottom of the rafter but not always.

after the rafter has been set in its place it was usual to use 4 or 5" spikes or a wooden peg to hold it in its positon.

Thanks for coming on board with those pics of the barn, one thing that struck me was the resemblance of the barn to a Schoharie Dutch barn with its main entrance doors in the end of the structure.


NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #18684 03/20/09 12:39 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello all

Just before I leave that barn sure is finished off nicely with return on the eves, and the lights over the main doors. It almost has the look of the exterior of a large home.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #18686 03/20/09 01:48 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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Cut nails do sever the grain nicely as they punch their way through the wood, and are much less likely to split the wood, far superior to wire nails IMO.

It is however, a little recognized aspect of the diamond point on wire nails that there is a direction to place them. The diamond is asymmetrical and there are cut edges, they are though less recognizable than they were in years past and not as sharp, and not recognizable without a visual inspection necessarily longer than most would give them even if they knew they were there.

I thought the term butt cog was in more common usage than it apparently is. It is essentially the end of a drop in joist or purlin fully housed width wise though often the drop in is reduced in height with a relief cut.

See the Wiki - http://tfwiki.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Encyclopedia#B

Don, neglect aside, that barn was always better from without than within.

Ken, I do see nailed joinery with some frequency, typically but not always limited to simple butt cogs.


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #18698 03/20/09 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: northern hewer
Hello all

Just before I leave that barn sure is finished off nicely with return on the eves, and the lights over the main doors. It almost has the look of the exterior of a large home.

NH



Here in my neck of the woods large barns from this era are typically adorned w/ such trim work. It's one way I can date a building just by driving by. Seems it's always 1880-1910 range...

Victorian influences finally made it to farm architecture. A quote from an old publication speaks to this:

"[i]Among the many and recent improvements in farming matters, none is more conspicuous than the improvement in the construction of barns. The gables, doors and windows of the barn are frequently ornamented with pediments; and the eaves, or cornices with wide, handsome moldings."[/i]

--New England Farmer, 1855


I like that barn too... too bad it's in such disrepair. the roof leaks badly. Weeds grow on the wet floor... but the owner loves it and remembers his family farming there. His father had it built in 1911 and he really wants to restore it. There are numerous bottle jacks in place as temporary fixes. But it will take many thousands of dollars. I think it's too late for this one, sadly. He's a school teacher... I had to wonder if it made it through this past winter, given the heavy snows we had. But she still stands. I went by a couple weeks ago.

Nice subject to photograph. Kind of gothic all run down like it is.





Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Will Truax] #18699 03/20/09 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Will Truax

Cut nails do sever the grain nicely as they punch their way through the wood, and are much less likely to split the wood, far superior to wire nails IMO.



I often wish they sold pre-blunted wire nails.

thanks for the clarification on Butt Cog


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: OurBarns1] #18765 03/24/09 12:57 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi everyone tonight:

Here I go again but there was an article in the local newspaper that pertains to a specific type of roof structure that is associated with one of the oldest Anglican Churches in Upper Canada-

This church now stands at Riverside Heights just a short distance from where I live near Morrisburg Ontario Canada, and was removed from its original location at the time of the St. Lawrence Seaway Cconstruction in the late 50's. It was one of only 2 churches that was relocated at that time stone by stone and moved to a higher location.

So I am throwing this term out to everyone, maybe we can put it in the TFG glossary if it warrants storing after we have kicked it around a while.

The term is a "Lynchgate Roof"

It is English in origin but it does have a special meaning.

This type of roof structure was built about 1903 by Robert M. Cox of Liverpool England for anyone that is interested in the builder's name.

Could anyone describe just what a "Lynchgate Roof" is and why such a name?

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #18768 03/24/09 01:35 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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Wow Richard, 100,000 hits on your thread, a fantastic first for the forum.

Like I explained in my last post on your thread, I came up in a town named Litchfield, it shares the same rootword derivation as the roof you're asking after. Essentially I climbed up out of a boneyard...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lichgate

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/26372


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Will Truax] #18769 03/24/09 01:50 AM
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Yes, all hail: 100,000 hits!!

AP newswire: Historic forum reaches historic 100,000 hit marker...obscure thread starter says he's as shocked as anybody. "I still have many more posts to go," the Canadian carpenter announced, boldly...


Bravo Northern Hewer! You should get a plaque (hand hewn, of course) to mark this historic achievement.

As to your "Lynchgate" question, I had a friend w/ the last name of Lynch. The family was very Irish. Perhaps this word is Irish rather than English, per se?


[And I just passed my 300th post!]


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: OurBarns1] #18770 03/24/09 09:12 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi Richard,

The name has most likely has been corrupted just a little. The word is Lytchgate and this is the small covered structure present at the entrance to most church grounds. Its like a little open timber framed building but don't confuse this with a church porch which is attached to the church.

The word Lytch means "corpse" and thus this gated structure was used to obviate the need for a vicar to allow the body of a plague victim or other excummunicado individuals being brought onto hallowed ground for a burial blessing.

A village close to where I live in North Hampshire is called Lytchpit and it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out that this is where all of the thousands of plague victims were unceremoniously damped into a huge open grave with some shovels of lime then being thrown over the lytch to help the body quickly break down. The other close equivalent as mentioned by Will is Litchfield and this means the same thing only maybe the Lytches weren't buried or cast into a pit.

Nice topic that you have chosen for your 100K post !

I will try and get a picture and post this for your delectation.

Regards

Ken Hume

Last edited by Ken Hume; 03/24/09 09:17 AM.

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