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#19027 - 04/06/09 11:34 AM Attempting to date a barn in Central NC???
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
Ok, the building came from within a 100 mile radius of Asheboro. The barn is @ 25' x 30'plus. All oak except top plates and purlins that are continuous and poplar. It is square ruled, tie below plate (1/2 wedged dovetail), 4 bent w/ side entry w/ open to roof center bay,outside bays have dividing walls, all hewn except smaller (less than 10' long and under 5" in thickness)members that are sash sawn(will post pics soon), all bracing is post to sill, on exterior post only, both directions on corner post. All the joinery is thru pegged except on the sill, and all sill morts have 1/2 weep holes (interior and outside perimeter). Door jacks, wall studs and headers are mortise and tenon joints. Drilling appears to have been t-augered assessing some debris left in mort. Heavily drawbored (1/4 inch plus) some evidence of over boring because a few holes appeared to be re-drilled during erection (continuous tool marks across both pieces inside the hole). Drawbore was laid out and drilled on the table (scratch awl marks on tenon), layout lines are still very visible. They are black in color and have splatter you would see when using an ink line that is too wet. Both sides of mortise and the housing lines were snapped. So in some cases there are three lines on a side. The corner post had heavy leads on the outside ends of the tenon toward each end of the building (my assumption being to ease plate placement). The post, tie, girts are @8x8, the plates are 5"x6", the rafters are 2"+ x 6"+ and have a deep cog that touches 3 sides of the plate. They have a generous overhang. That is all I have for now. I will try to post pictures and anything else relevant in a timely fashion but I wanted to get the ball rolling. Thanks Jayson. I will take another look at the rafters because they are sawn but they are larger than anything else sawn. Will get back on that one.

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#19037 - 04/06/09 08:32 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Jason, nice description, it sounds like a 3 bay side entry English barn. The Snap lines are an interesting touch, snap-line square rule. Are there other similar barns in the area or is this an odd ball? Are there braces in the tie to post position? This is a very common type of barn I see here in coastal down east Maine. Is there a small collar up near the peak nailed in, I am guessing no ridge board and the rafters are butted and nailed? My guess at the date is winter, 1869.

Tim

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#19039 - 04/07/09 01:34 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Ken Hume Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 934
Hi Jason,

How do you know and what tests have you done to confirm that the wall plates are poplar and especially what particlar species of poplar (latin term), This is an important question.

I am assuming that the above analysis is not your own and the words are those of others since it would not be usual to thank yourself (2nd last line).

Regards

Ken Hume
_________________________
Looking back to see the way ahead !

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#19047 - 04/07/09 10:34 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Ken Hume]
Mark Davidson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1116
Loc: Keene,Ontario, Canada
I think I remember reading some amazing stories about NC poplar, that they had 16ft diameter trees at one time....

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#19051 - 04/07/09 11:16 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine
Nice description.

Sounds like a great old building.

I have a couple questions and a guess on a date-range (though I'm am not familiar w/ US southern barns, I'm a New England barn buff).

1. What kind of nails are present (what does the head look like)?

2. Any siding, or just boarding. Is the wall boarding vertical (check nails on this boarding)

3. Roof pitch? Shallow or steep? (more or less than 8/12, and is there a ridgepole?)

4. Any trim/cornice embellishment or plain-Jane?

5. Is there a cupola or any gable vent holes, etc.?


Going by what you have given for details, I'll take a stab and say early 1800s, probably before 1830...

Need pictures.
_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19060 - 04/09/09 02:28 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
Don P Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 217
Loc: VA
Ken,
Hoping not to put words in Jayson's mouth.
From the location it would be tulip poplar, the wood is marketed as yellow poplar, the latin is liriodendron tulipifera. ID is usually pretty easy by eye. I think if you break paragraph after "Thanks, Jayson" and maybe put in "PS" it will then be clearly his writing smile

Jayson,
Also check the age of neighboring buildings, south and east of there within 100 miles would be the swath of Sherman's "bummers". They ran a heavy footprint roughly 40 miles wide through there. Often leaving only chimneys as "Sherman's sentinels" on the landscape.

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#19061 - 04/09/09 02:37 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Mark Davidson]
Gabel Offline

Member

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 687
Loc: Georgia
We're working with Jayson right now and have discussed this barn. I would love to go see it.


Ken, those are his words, I can assure you -- I think he was just ending the post with a "thanks -- Jayson" and then added some more.

The species of the plates would be Yellow Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) one of the most common trees in the South and used extensively for framing, but not of the genus populus.

Mark, there are still giant poplars standing in Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest near Robbinsville, NC. Here is some info on our poplars -- http://forestry.about.com/od/hardwoods/ss/tuliptree.htm


ps looks like Don P beat me to the button.


pps. Whit threw out the idea that the snaplines could have been made with Walnut Dye from our black walnut husks.


Edited by Gabel (04/09/09 02:45 PM)
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Gabel

www.holderbros.com

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#19066 - 04/09/09 08:31 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Gabel]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Gable, any detail on how they would have snapped those lines? In the description it sounds a bit slobbery, splattery. Has anyone seen antique line baths that would point in that direction?

Hungry for pictures.

Tim

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#19067 - 04/09/09 09:06 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Dave Shepard Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alford, MA
I've read that charred willow branches were used to "chalk" a line. I don't know where I read that, might have been Sloane.
_________________________
Member, Timber Framers Guild

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#19068 - 04/09/09 09:41 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Dave Shepard]
Don P Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 217
Loc: VA
Never seen one this side of the pond but a Japanese version looks like this;
http://www.fine-tools.com/ba1.htm

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