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#19069 - 04/09/09 10:52 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Dave Shepard]
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
Man, I am overwhelmed at the response. I will try to answer best I can. I have not done any type of testing but look, smell and taste would point towards tulip popular. They were not the giants of old growth, tiny(5"x7"), appropriate and manageble would be a better description. Yes, there are braces from tie to post. Yes, there are rumor of similar buildings in the area.(planning more local research). Yes, those are my words. It could be the fact that the existing site is loaded with black walnuts that Whit's suggestion of walnut dye fit but also the fact that it has endured a century of use that makes it so feasible. The nails present vary. One that comes to mind appeared to be folded or doubled...it was square headed. The hinges for the large doors were definitely wrought and highly likely original. I will have to review pics to verify siding. I will take a look at rafters for evidence of cupola. From memory I would say middle of the road roof pitch, will get back on that one. I think that the cogged rafters are unique and important to note. I will take a look also to see if there is any evidence of a nailed collar. Are there any reason a building or community would have been spared by Sherman's bummers? Dave, my first thought on the chalk lines was charcoal of some sort, but the longevity of them has leaned me towards the walnut dye. Would charcoal hold up like the walnut?

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#19070 - 04/09/09 10:53 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
How do I post pics here?

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#19071 - 04/10/09 03:39 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
Ken Hume Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 934
HI Jason

Don't do a "Quick Reply" instead selct the reply button at the bottom of the last post and then an array of icons will appear of which the third from the left will let you post a picture. Try to edit your digi pic down to 680 x 420 to help avoid text scrolling.

I am pleased to hear that these are your words and yes Don what a difference punctuation can make to words.

I am sitting writing my email on top of a mahogany table that has been dyed with walnut dye. Over the past 30 years this table has lightened considerably due to the action of the sunlight and so I would think that charcoal (carbon) would be the more durable of the two since this is found to remain in the ground thousands of years after the camp fire went out.

Tulip Poplar tastes like ?

Regards

Ken Hume


Edited by Ken Hume (04/10/09 03:42 AM)
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#19073 - 04/10/09 06:41 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Ken Hume]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
I hope we can get over 7 pages out of this one.

The pictures have to come from a source such as Photo Bucket, then it can be linked as Ken directs.

This past summer I tried charcoal as a snap line on a replacement post and the top covering has blown off which left it exposed to the weather, I will check to it remains this morning. Would they have uses a wet line in conjunction with charcoal? Mine was dry and worked very well.

I would much rather hew a log which is just big enough to gain the size timber needed than a larger than necessary log. I find the size of the top plate interesting, it is just largenough to get the job done, 5X6.

Probably chicken, Ken.

Tim

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#19074 - 04/10/09 07:46 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Don P Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 217
Loc: VA
Not like mama used to make laugh
My comment on Sherman was along the lines that if you don't see anything local older than '65 that might date it to after that. If that is even a possibility if you can be more specific about location we can see if it was potentially in that path. They certainly did not destroy everything in their wake though so that is not a certainty either. I did work on one log home in that swath from the late 1700's that had fire damage. Behind a wall in charcoal was the date 1865. We jumped to the conclusion that we knew who had been careless with the match, but it was just that. One reason to be spared in NC though would be that the war was in its final weeks, he was running behind due to a wet spring and high water crossings, they were exhausted and until meeting up with fresh troops coming in from Wilmington they were in bad shape. The bummers, camp followers, deserters and foragers were more focused on food but likely less friendly. Being a human interaction I imagine every outcome to contact occurred. This is one quote I found on the net;
"The troops were confident, even cocky: they had met little significant opposition in Georgia, and they doubted that the Confederacy would make life any tougher for them in South Carolina. Fearing no repercussions, many roamed far from the march route, looting and destroying. Kilpatrick's troopers carried boxes of matches in their saddlebags, ready to use whenever they saw an appealing target. The "Bummers" in the infantry columns allowed few chicken coops and smokehouses to escape their attention."
After Bentonville Sherman issued orders to tread lightly, the regular army tended to follow orders. That is why Raleigh is in good shape. I did work on older register homes there. From Fayetville he marched to Goldsboro to take the railhead there then turned towards Raleigh, Johnston surrendered at Bennet Place outside of Durham.

Hopefully not too far off topic, gotta run



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#19076 - 04/10/09 10:34 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Don P]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine
Jayon, to post pictures. You might want to print this page to refer to while navigating through various windows...

To post pics here via a free hosting site such as photobucket:

· Go to www.photobucket.com and create an account.
· In the "upload images & video" section, click "choose files" (640X480 is a good setting, anything bigger will have a negative affect on pages in this forum).
· Choose your picture.
· It will upload and you can title it if you want.
· Click "Return to album" (your picture is now on the photobucket site).
· You will be redirected to the uploaded photo; move the cursor over the picture.
· Click "direct link" then right-click "copy." (A link to the photo is now on your machine's clipboard.)
· Go back to the TFG forum site. Click "reply"
· On the top of the reply text window, click the icon third from left (next to the envelope).
· A small window will appear with "http://" highlighted
· Right-click in this window, select paste (which will insert a link to your picture from photobucket), click " OK."
· Select "preview post." You should be able to see the picture that will appear instead of just a web address. Just type text above or below the web address.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.


_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19077 - 04/10/09 10:48 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine
Originally Posted By: Jayson
The nails present vary. One that comes to mind appeared to be folded or doubled...it was square headed...From memory I would say middle of the road roof pitch, will get back on that one....


Hey Jayson

When you say "square headed nails" does that mean square or rectangular? literally square suggests hand wrought nails which are very old--could be 1700s. (But that's too old for square rule, I think). Rectangular head are typically 1800s. What about the shaft on that doubled-over nail. Is that tapered square or tapered rectangular?

I have found old barns here in Maine generally have lesser roof pitches. Big haylofts became popular in the second half of the 1800s. So a shallow pitch often means an earlier date (again, here in Maine.)

The absence of a ridgepole in a common rafter roof is another older indicator (generally).

And what about the roof trim detail? Is there a gable overhang or are the rake boards flush w/ the building? Flush denotes older here in these parts.

You haven't mentioned anything about the posts. The small plate suggests jowled/flared posts w/ an English tying configuration.

And I was thinking wet charcoal on those lines. I remember your experiment Tim... eager to hear if they're still visible.

_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19078 - 04/10/09 03:46 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Gabel Offline

Member

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 687
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
Gable, any detail on how they would have snapped those lines? In the description it sounds a bit slobbery, splattery. Has anyone seen antique line baths that would point in that direction?


Here is a link to a description of using water and venetian red (ferric oxide) from Hodgson's Light and Heavy Timber Framing Made Easy. The entire book is available for download as a pdf on google books as it is public domain.

http://books.google.com/books?id=kkk1AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=light+and+heavy+timber+framing+made+easy#PPA172,M1
_________________________
Gabel

www.holderbros.com

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#19079 - 04/10/09 04:41 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Gabel]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine

That book is a nice read. Google books is fantastic for research.

I had not heard the term "gain" before in terms of joinery. Pg 174 of Hodgson's book refers to it. Looks like a general term for a housing or even what we've called a "dap" in the past. Must check the glossary on that one.

The old masters must have used all sorts of things to wet / dye a snap line: berries, flowers, maybe even blood if something was freshly killed...

Although I've put this link up in the past, It's relevant to snap lines (charcoal in this case):

http://books.google.com/books?id=2W1Lq_nvlCQC&printsec=frontcover&lr=#PPA15,M1


_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19080 - 04/10/09 04:48 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine

"gain" is listed:

GAIN. Sizing (see) reduction at timber surface in joinery area; any shallow housing, as for a hinge. Cf. HOUSING.
_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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