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#19081 - 04/10/09 07:57 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: Maine
Don Perkins, Jason did mention in the first post that the tie was dropped and wedged with a half dove tailed tenon, leaving this odd top plate. I have seen this in a similar barn here, one plate was sawn and the other hewn.

My dry laid snap lines are still very prevalent and it has been exposed to the weather through this winter, they were cast last summer. It wouldn't rub off or smudge, quite permanent. In the sunlight it almost had a glitter to it, kind of a sparkle. I wouldn't describe it as having any splatter, it did when it was new but not now.

Cool history, I am now going through the Civil War and Lincoln in the history book I am reading.

Tim

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#19093 - 04/11/09 11:02 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine
Thanks for the reminder Tim...a lot to remember.

I wonder if that small plate and common rafter combination would make the plate prone to "rolling?" And neat to hear your snap-line update. Maybe you should try some wet charcoal. That would no doubt splatter some.

The Civil War is an interesting variable in dating this barn. Kind of like our French and Indian Wars here in northern New England. It's rare to find a barn here outside of the major population centers that predates this period (1754-1763). Much of the landscape was burned.

I'm eager to see how the various date indicators I use here in Maine compare w/ the southern US. There could be a correlation, or a completely different animal.

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Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19107 - 04/11/09 10:01 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
The pitch is 5 1/2". Yes, I believe the tiny plate would be prone to rolling hence the odd cogged rafter to plate connection. My first thought of the snap lines was that they were charcoal but there is spatter still very clear. Ken, you mentioned your walnut stained table has been exposed to sunlight...pretty harsh on everything. I doubt these lines were subjected to alot of sunlight. In reference to taste, it taste a bit bland and slightly tannic(bitter), when you chew it (dry), it swells and fluffs up to maybe 2 or 3 times the volume. I suspect that it would make a great wooden gasket. The nail heads are rectangular. The post are plain jane, no jowl and no tying joint. I am convinced without a doubt this guy was not new to putting a building together. I also suspect there was a guy in training here. The corner post imo were hewn by the same guy, among other members. The hewing was crisp, clean and near perfect. Some secondary members were rough with obvious novice mistakes(tear out and wild, out of grain attempts to move wood and seemingly a couple of push bores). I will get pics here but it appears I will need some time to do so. Another question I have is how would this barn have been used? I have scanned the place for signs of animal wear and have thus far came up empty. There are no rounded or worn corners or signs of chewing,kicking,or any hair. What would have been stored in this building? I will speak to the owner next week and get an exact location if they are willing to share that info. I knew this one was special in my neck of the woods and very much appreciate the enthusiasim and feedback. I really have to be in right state of mind to endure the learning process of pic posting but I will make a concerted effort to do so. Sorry to keep y'all hanging.

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#19116 - 04/12/09 09:25 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
Jim Rogers Offline

Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1603
Loc: Georgetown, MA, USA
Could have just been a storage barn... maybe tobacco, or cotton?
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#19120 - 04/12/09 10:17 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
The cogged rafter. The toothplate, you know toothpick. A not so good photo of the frame. Heavy lead on corner post. Post at tie. Weep hole. Oops! I will make some much better pics this week. Especially of the snap lines, scribe marks, and joinery. Thanks for the pix instruction, that was pretty easy.

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#19121 - 04/12/09 01:18 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
OurBarns1 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 570
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine
Great pics.
Glad the "tutorial" helped.

I didn't realize this barn was already taken down and being re-erected etc. That probably makes it a little tougher to date as it's not in its original setting or foundation. What was the foundation by the way?

And do you know anything about the original roof trim? Any gable overhang, embellishments etc...

Do you think those plates were originally one piece of timber that got sawn / split in two? Maybe that's why they're so teeny. Or could have been the only trees long enough in that stretch of woods for plate material, etc...

As a side, please separate your text into paragraphs when posting. The long streams of sentences are hard to navigate and refer back to.

Cool stuff--
_________________________
Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...



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#19125 - 04/12/09 10:36 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: OurBarns1]
Jayson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Georgia
Sorry about the run on. I get excited and can't quite group it together sometimes. I will be onsite next week so I will be able to field questions and pics a little better. So if you have any sling'em. Questions and requests that is?

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#19128 - 04/13/09 06:52 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Jayson]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: Maine
Which peg hole was use in that brace?

How about a close up picture of these snap lines?

What was the foundation like, as Don inquired, and the floor system, did it have a drive bay in the center and what was the flooring like on either side? Was it original of mucked together? Other details on the flooring? Bare ground?

What is the height of the post? Can a man walk between the upper Tie and lower cross beam? Was there any flooring on this second level? And if so did it extend across the drive/center bay, at any point?

Did you find any left over straw, tobacco leaves, animal dung, or other signs which could possible point to the former use of this barn?

Tim

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#19129 - 04/13/09 07:30 AM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Gabel Offline

Member

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 687
Loc: Georgia
Jayson,

See if there are any photos of the barn before it was taken down.

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Gabel

www.holderbros.com

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#20889 - 08/09/09 09:06 PM Re: Attempting to date a barn in Central NC??? [Re: Gabel]
Housewright Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 332
Loc: Waldoboro, Maine
Hi Jayson and everyone;

I have not been active with the forum for several months so I was very pleased to have this barn be the first thread I checked today. It is great to see detailed information on a Southern barn for this New Englander.

In the image labled "weep hole", the mortise seems to have over-cut marks. Were these mortises partially sawn? One of my favorite tools is a Japanese mortising saw, but I am not aware of mortising saws being available in America in the 19th century.

About the roof pitch; I reciently attended the TFG/PTN Rendezvous in Kentucky where, in a discussion with Rudy Christian, he said that the 5.5:12 pitch is "everywhere" on buildings in the Midwest.

There are two historical ratios of roof pitch, one using the distance from the peak to the plate or tie (the rise)divided by the width of the building not including rafter tails (span) and the other using a ratio of the rafter length/span. The 5.5 pitch (24.6 degrees is very close to a 2/9 using the rise/span ratio (24.0 degrees, a 5.33:12 pitch). The height difference between a 5.5 and 5.3 pitch would be two inches in twelve feet of run. Did you carefully measure the peak to plate height? Could you? Could it be a 2/9 pitch roof?

The rafter length/span ratio is an earlier method and the closest pitch would be a 5/9 at 25.8 degrees, almost a 6:12 pitch so it seems less likely than using the rise/span method.

Thanks;
Jim


Edited by Housewright (08/09/09 09:08 PM)
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The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909

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