All right, you can have any given length, but that length can be divided into increments of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, all numbers associated with the inch program not tenths. The Wheel has six points, double that and you have the twelve units of the foot. This could be rolled out with a large wheel, I have seen large wheel used for marking devices. That is all the divider are doing when walking off X-number of steps.

Was there a base length? At times I have wondered if the length of the available wood was the key, then was split into it 1/8's or 1/16's and the rest of the frame was built according to that original longest needed stick.

That is a start, go ahead and pick it apart and say there is no connection.

By the way, it is not raining just a late lunch and I am home alone.

Tim

Thanks for starting this thread, Tim:

As Tim suggests, the number 12 is significant in many areas of science and humanity. We even have 12 units on a standard clock face, which must be taken directly from old sundials...

I'm guessing that 12 is employed in so many things simply because it is a much more divisible unit than the number 10 is. (10 cannot be divided exactly in thirds... 3.33333, etc) But there are no doubt other hidden reasons why we use 12.

This link is a good intro to the daisy wheel layout of prominent medieval buildings:

http://www.cressingtemple.org.uk/Adrian%20Gibson/Wheat%20Barn.htm

No doubt Ken (and Gabel) can add to this...

The Power of Limits is an interesting study. Can be applied to many a subject....

do you mean the metric system?
and whats wrong with finding library books?

This is all I've been thinking about as I plod along today out in the yard...

Had an insight:

The metric system is decimal (deca, 10, etc)... Base-12 (for lack of a better term) is about fractions. And fraction is really another word for proportion. Daisy wheel is all about proportion...the number 12 is a very divisible unit.

And as Derek points, Davinci's wheel must be related. The human body was likely the base of measurements, or the proportin of certain body parts. Remember that originally an inch was supposedly the length of a man's thumb: the nail to the first knuckle?

Fraction and proportion are also seen in the old way of referring to roof pitch: 1/3 for example, which equates to an 8/12. 1/2 pitch is a 12/12, etc.

Before I studied TF, I never heard of roof pitch stated in proportion to a building's width. It was always 5/12, 8/12, 10/12, etc.

I also used to wonder how rafters were laid out before the framing square was developed. I guess I still do. They must have been more or less scribed in place with the ridge set at a predetermined height. I don't know.

The Daisy Wheel diagram below is like many I've seen, w/ roofs having a 1/2 (12/12) pitched roof. Why is this? Were other roof slopes unable fit the wheel, so to speak?



As you can see I'm just getting a grasp on the whole Daisy Wheel phenomenon. Many questions arise.

Nice book bmike, I could add that to the wish list.

When I go over this I find I come to a point and can't move beyond it, sort of like chess I can only get 3 moves ahead and then the possibilities expound and I pick the best and settle for that move.

Why don't we have 6 fingers? Some odd cats have 6 claws. Our thumbs are the important change, among others, which separate us from the rest. My thumb measures 1" from nail to the first crease of the first joint.

Depending how deep, and how wide, you look we are just a fractal of the cosmos.

Tim

it is important to remember that buildings need to be designed with form and function tied together. if you try to jam everything into a golden section or daisy wheel design... sometimes it works - other times it doesn't. we're unfortunately a bit trapped by the 4x8 mentality (or the 8x or 6x mentality) - we use what is commonly available... often to save $$, time, both, or waste. but, the plywood manufacturer often doesn't really know what the ideal living arrangement of a client may be...

i liked the theory of finding the longest / largest sticks and working from there. when i did a local barn most of my sizing was done by what i could get from a local mill... it required some creativity - doing some key lam tie beams for the center bents, and breaking the top plates at certain locations - but in the end it made sense with the materials i had on hand.

working with reclaimed or cruck / scribe materials will push this path as well. how big is the room? how long is that timber?

the book is a good study. he pushes the idea a bit, taking it almost too far - but yes - the smaller is to the greater as the greater is to the whole.

there is power in limits - so maybe that plywood mentality can be turned on its head. or that 8x mentality. with design students i've often limited the materials or the sizes - it is amazing what students can come up with, esp, when they are unencumbered with 'tradition' and 'thats the way its always done'....

what about the plan view. where does the daisy wheel go with this?

Mo,

It seems the wheel can be used to determine bent spacing:
http://www.cressingtemple.org.uk/Adrian%20Gibson/Wheat%20Barn.htm

So the wheel can be used for floor (plan) as well as elevation (wall) framing.

Where is Ken? We need an English chap.


bmike,

I think we're just trying to lean how the Daisy Wheel worked, not jam all building design into this one particular formula.