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Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: Ken Hume] #19832 05/19/09 09:47 AM
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Tom, more great links.

Ken, in one of Tom's links crop circles came up, do they appear near you and have you ever visited one, in other words are they real? I have a faint recollection they have appeared in England?

It appears they do with a quick search......

http://www.ukcropcircles.co.uk/?page=crop-circles

Don, here is a video with a twist to religion. Did you check out the other one I posted way back? I try to look at these with a somewhat open mind, in that I don't want to condemn or misconstrue them in any way, I am not picking sides just listening. I use them as evening entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmJMhFZXlI&feature=related

Were the Pagans worshiping only earthly Gods?

Tim



Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: TIMBEAL] #19835 05/19/09 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
Tom, more great links.

Don, here is a video with a twist to religion. Did you check out the other one I posted way back? I try to look at these with a somewhat open mind, in that I don't want to condemn or misconstrue them in any way, I am not picking sides just listening. I use them as evening entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmJMhFZXlI&feature=related

Were the Pagans worshiping only earthly Gods?

Tim




Hey Tim:

I don't know about worshiping only earthly gods...

That video (Jordan Maxwell) is a great find! Finally, someone is posing an insight about the unit 12. the god Horus is where we get "hours"...he took 12 steps across the sky and that's why we have 12 hours on a clock face (also interesting to consider he mentions 12 grades in traditional schooling).

I did see the first clip you posted on Nassim Haramein, but I find Maxwell is much easier to follow. Keep on youtubing!


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: Tom Cundiff] #19836 05/19/09 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tom Cundiff


Those are some interesting links Tom. I'll have to spend some time on those...
Never heard/considered Native American Geometry.
Makes me wonder if there were a preferred number of tepee poles!


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: Ken Hume] #19837 05/19/09 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ken Hume
Hi Don,

A minor point of correction. Until a few years ago the English were mainly Anglo-Saxon with a smattering of Jute / Norman / Viking / Dane / Roman, etc. Celts are indigenous to Ireland with many of these people relocating later to Scotland. Wales also has a high Celtic constituent in ts population. Celts are dark haired, fair skinned and their first toe is longer or sticks out further than their big toe. The Druids did not build Stonehenge -they came much later.

Your points about Paganism are well made and I find myself having much in common with their thoughts, attitudes and respect of nature and the seasons in their approach to life. Quite sensible really.

Regards

Ken Hume



Ken:

Please correct me in regards to your homeland. I should have said the UK, not England specifically.

As an aside, my first toe is longer than my "big toe." Never heard the Celt connection w/ this. My ancestry is mostly English and German. Very interesting.

So who built Stonehenge? Or is this one of the great mysteries?
It was built by pagans, however, no?

I too find myself aligning with "pagan" thoughts, attitudes and respect of nature and the seasons in their approach to life.

Interesting to consider that the religions based on "One God" have typically been the conquerors of history, ramming their ideology down the throats (and minds) of the indigenous. The Crusades and the Persian empire certainly have a track record in this regard.

But the Mongols, those who conquered more land and people in all of history, what "religion" did they follow?

By contrast, pagans have been largely peaceful throughout history.



Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: OurBarns1] #19839 05/19/09 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: OurBarns1

Those are some interesting links Tom. I'll have to spend some time on those...
Never heard/considered Native American Geometry.
Makes me wonder if there were a preferred number of tepee poles!


According to "The Indian Tipi" by Reginald and Gladys Laubin, Tipis were based on either a 3 pole Tripod or a 4 pole Quadripod depending on the tribe. The Sioux Tipi was based on a tripod with a total of 18 poles. The Shoshoni Tipi was a four pole based tipi with 15 or 18 poles total. Blackfoot and Crow tipis were 4 pole type.


Not all who wander are lost.
Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: ] #19845 05/20/09 02:59 PM
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I've just finished going over the articles in Timber Framing No. 70 and 90.

The articles are certainly interesting and suggest the daisy wheel was a frequently employed building aid 500 years ago. Though I'm certainly no expert on the wheel, I thought it would be helpful to add my interpretation of the articles to our discussion, especially for those who do not have access to the articles.

The three buildings surveyed by Laurie Smith are in Wales. Smith states building orientation in all cases is largely determined by the weather. The homes are built on a north-south axis, which protects against northerly winter weather bowing down from the mountains, while also allowing the eastern and western long walls to face morning and evening sunlight. A fact Smith states allowed for maximum sunlight at dark times of the day as these buildings were certainly before electricity and internal lighting.

As far as wheel geometry, what I find interesting is that he not so much focuses on the circles that make up the "spokes" of the wheel, but the fact that they overlap one another. Through this, Smith briefly alludes to religious origins. Where the wheels overlap creates an ellipse sometimes referred to as the "vesica piscis," or "fish’s bladder" (Google this term).





Smith states the vesica piscis approximates the shape of a fish and is "the earliest Christian symbol." This fish representation is technically referred to as an ichthys (again Google this term). Tom Cundiff has posted links on these symbols.






Researching the two terms will find you reading that the vesica piscis also forms the shape of the human eye. Some call it the "Eye of God" which is found in the pyramid on the back of a US dollar. This "eye" is also in Freemasonry and other early mysterious organizations.

If you arrange a number of vesica piscis within a circle (kind of like a daisy wheel on steroids) you come up with what's referred to as "the flower of life," and the "seed of life." Again, see Tom C’s links. Most accounts state the "flower of life" is found in nearly every religion and holds the keys to the universe through various geometrical configurations and patterns. It relates to everything from cell division to shapes found in nature such as hexagonal patterns on snakeskin and honeycombs.

Though Laurie Smith does not go down this road other than to say the vesica piscis is the earliest Christian symbol, he does remark that some buildings have key points of their design falling in the center of certain vesica piscis, which means the focus is where the circles overlap in the geometry.

Instead of a six pointed daisy wheel, the first home is based on a four pointed (or petaled) wheel. Thinking of the wheel as a clock face, note the four vesica piscis at 12, 3, 6 and 9, and notice how the rafters pass precisely through the center of these...where the pupil of an eye would be.





Living in Maine, I can't help but notice this rather squat home design w/ a high roof looks a lot like early cape homes here in New England.

This is all just the tip of the iceberg. I'll stop here and let some other folks who may have read the articles comment.

Though Smith just barely speaks on the origins of the wheel, he does give a Christian reference, while also saying the daisy wheel is "ubiquitous in historic buildings." Given the heavy reference to vesica piscis and its own associations (Eye of God, etc...), I think it's safe to say the wheel, and by default buildings constructed with it, exhibit religious roots.





Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: OurBarns1] #19847 05/20/09 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: OurBarns1

Most accounts state the "flower of life" is found in nearly every religion and holds the keys to the universe through various geometrical configurations and patterns. It relates to everything from cell division to shapes found in nature such as hexagonal patterns on snakeskin and honeycombs.

..... I think it's safe to say the wheel, and by default buildings constructed with it, exhibit religious roots.


I think it's safe to say the builders, and by default the buildings they constructed, exhibit religious roots. The "Wheel" itself is much deeper than any religion. It represents the knowledge of the natural laws of the universe. Knowledge is power, of course they all want to take credit for it.




Not all who wander are lost.
Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: Tom Cundiff] #19848 05/21/09 01:03 AM
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In that vein Tom, I think early religions were much more science based. I agree the wheel and its geometric laws, etc. seem more science than religion.

As an case in point, Taoism, one of my early interests, is an example of a "religion" that first began as a science. In China, there was never a Taoist church until many many years later. The forces of Yin and Yang (its foremost teaching) are not about gods, but universal principles and interactive forces found in nearly every facet of life and substance. Same w/ The Five Elements, the I-Ching and the Chinese Zodiac.

Taoism became a religion when people began to follow these nature-based "teachings" en-masse. But it began with solitary recluses observing universal laws. Somewhere/time in the West, science and religion got split into very distinct camps.

A strong proponent of this separation is the Catholic Church; free thinking is hardly encouraged. The world is flat, etc.

Anyway, probably running of topic a bit, but I also wanted to add that Smith found the Daisy Wheel was used even to place the pegs in the old frames he studied. Wow, even the pegs!







Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: ] #19911 05/26/09 01:16 AM
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the Pantheon still stands. I like the epicycloid.

p.s. I find that the frisbee sailing is pure Taoism.

Last edited by mo; 05/26/09 01:17 AM.
Re: Daisy Wheel [Re: mo] #19921 05/26/09 08:37 PM
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Nice analogy of the frisbee, Mo...

So many things there to draw on: motion/stillness; life/death; giving/receiving; the rise and fall of energy...

Is the frisbee yin or yang as it's flying?



Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


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