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Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: OurBarns1] #20039 06/01/09 01:38 PM
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Joe Wood Offline
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Don, I know that mildew feeds off of linseed oil, that's why a linseed oil based stain is a bad choice for outdoor projects.

Still not getting mail notifications even though I clicked that "Notify" button.

Hhmmm, seems that Notify button is to notify the moderators about the post?

Last edited by Joe Wood; 06/01/09 01:39 PM.
Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: OurBarns1] #20040 06/01/09 02:00 PM
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Thane O'Dell Offline OP
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Don,
Raw linseed oil will dry but it takes weeks. I use it on all my tool handles, horses, benches and small sheds that are not stained. As far as insects go, they like wood...oiled or not.
Boiled Linseed oil is not boiled today. They add chemicals to it to make it polimerize faster. (Which makes it poision) My dog has a habit of licking the Linseed oil off after I'm done and he's been doing this for years. If I used "boiled" Linseed oil it would likely kill him. Anyway I'm not making furnature but outside wood frames that require protection.
This new client wants his frame stained and I don't think any stain will take if I have used Linseed oil on it. I want to apply one product that will seal and stain. What is the popular sealer/stain product that Timber Framers are using?


Life is short so put your heart into something that will last a long time.
Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: Thane O'Dell] #20042 06/01/09 02:59 PM
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OurBarns1 Offline
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Thanks Thane.

So raw does eventually dry... And I know boiled is not truly boiled. It has toxic chemical driers added to facilitate the drying.

funny that the dog likes the raw stuff. It's made from flax after all. I like flax pizza crust.

Good topic.


Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...


Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: OurBarns1] #20044 06/01/09 04:54 PM
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daiku Offline
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The most durable finish for outdoors (IMO) is marine-grade spar varnish. You can add an oil-based tint or dye to it to color it, for a one-step application. Lots of fussing around to find the right tint but it works. Except pine, which seems to come out blotchy no matter what stain you used. CB.


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Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: daiku] #20046 06/01/09 05:01 PM
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bmike Offline
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For some great linseed products check out Tried and True... I've used it on furniture and I've used the beeswax version on a frame.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/

Not an outdoor product - but he uses the purest of the pure that he can get as a raw starting place.





Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
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Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: daiku] #20047 06/01/09 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: daiku
The most durable finish for outdoors (IMO) is marine-grade spar varnish. You can add an oil-based tint or dye to it to color it, for a one-step application. Lots of fussing around to find the right tint but it works. Except pine, which seems to come out blotchy no matter what stain you used. CB.


Clark - does the spar varnish harden into a barrier finish? I've always been leery of barrier finishes on green wood. I've had some bad luck with poly and varnish - hazing, cracking, etc.

Have you a secret? Or does it work?

-Mike


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
www.mikebeganyi.com
Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: Joe Wood] #20048 06/01/09 05:27 PM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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Originally Posted By: Joe Wood

Hhmmm, seems that Notify button is to notify the moderators about the post?

Use the "Watched" selection under topic options for emails about posts to each thread. I think that's what you want.

Jim Rogers


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: Jim Rogers] #20053 06/01/09 07:35 PM
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Don P Offline
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Boiled linseed oil can be either boiled or have heavy metal driers, I've seen some manufacturers recently that do state which process they use, sorry no names stuck. Raw around here turns gummy and black, we are pretty humid and have lots of floating goodies in the air that stick to it.

For indoor work you can cure the blotchies in pine using a stain conditioner or a washcoat of a compatible clear finish cut about half with a compatible thinner. Basically filling the rising and falling grain somewhat that is soaking up a lion's share of the stain trying to get uniform absorption of the color. Notice a blotch is where there is other than straight grain. It's those long softwood fibers at fault.

The only time dry rot has made any sense to me is in the old use I've seen a couple of places where they are describing a film forming finish over green timbers causing dry rot. Basically the painter turned the timber into compost in a sealed bag. Film forming finishes on large exterior timbers is a definite no-no unless you can guarantee that all checks are sealed. What I've seen is liquid water entering checks, it must then evaporate as a much larger volume of vapor which the film inhibits. This causes the moisture content of the entire surrounding area to rise above fiber saturation point, that point where not only the microfibrils are saturated but there is excess moisture in the lumens, this supports decay fungi. I've scooped out hot compost by hand from behind the film. A water repellant but vapor permeable finish is the ticket, problem is 3 or so coats of that and you have a film. I have noticed decreased checking when we prestain green wood. My feeling is that it decreases the moisture gradient in the timber. You don't have a rapidly drying and shrinking shell around a still fat swollen green core. It moderates the rate of surface drying. All of these are games of rate that depend heavily on the uncontrolled conditions around you. Dry too slow and the wood stains or rots, dry too fast and it turns to toothpicks, somewhere between those two ditches is the road.

Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: Don P] #20056 06/01/09 08:42 PM
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OurBarns1 Offline
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nice post, Don

Finishing is a balancing act. Some swear by varnish, others a penetrating oil. Different applications require different applications.

(cute, huh?)

Again, nice post.


Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...


Re: sealsealing ends and pockets [Re: OurBarns1] #20060 06/01/09 11:49 PM
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Thane O'Dell Offline OP
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I am building this frame from Eastern White Pine. The timbers are freshly cut and it will be 3 weeks before I am finished cutting joints. Should I wait until then to apply sealant/stain so the wood can dry a bit first?
So I'm getting the impression that there is no industry standard here for timber frame weather protection and wood grain enhancement. I'm sure brands like Minwax must have something that would do the job. I'm going to google minwax right now.

Thane


Life is short so put your heart into something that will last a long time.
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