Is there a product out there that can be used for sealing that will not affect staining after. Up to this point I have been using raw linseed oil on the ends and in the mortises to prevent rapid drying in those spots. The Cabana that I have make is required to be stained. What's out there that I should be using for this.
Thanks

anchor seal might work - i wouldn't use it in housings - you'll have to be careful to keep it away from the edges as it will resist stain a bit. they used to send out free samples - you should do some sample tests just to check compatibility.

Next time you're in London pick up some Log End Sealer at Lee Valley, it's around $35/gallon or so if I remember right. With a little care you can avoid getting it on the parts you want to stain.

Thane, I build decks and other outdoor structures, and always seal all the end cuts with whatever stain/sealer we'll be using on the finished product. Most any sealer/stain seems to work just fine on minimizing end checking.

So basicaly I can seal/stain the whole piece as I finish them?
That would be ideal. As this structure is not going to be covered by siding it should be treated like a deck then. Right?
Thane

Oh, we usually always pre seal/stain all the pieces before installing (except for deck boards), paying special attention to the end grain. Then we let the stain cure for 6 to 10 days before installing.

Say, anyone, how do I get email notifications of replies to threads I post in? I checked my Preferences and don't see anywhere to check.

At the bottom of each post is a "Notify" button. That should do it.

ah Ha .. thanks Dave!

Thane,

You said RAW linseed oil? Just checking. From what I've been told (I love linseed oil by the way, for furniture) RAW linseed oil will never dry...this thread has been talking about staining/sealing the whole frame...not sure you'd want to do your whole frame in RAW linseed. I'd use boiled.

I also heard that insects like to feed on linseed oil. Anyone support/deny this ??

Don, I know that mildew feeds off of linseed oil, that's why a linseed oil based stain is a bad choice for outdoor projects.

Still not getting mail notifications even though I clicked that "Notify" button.

Hhmmm, seems that Notify button is to notify the moderators about the post?

Don,
Raw linseed oil will dry but it takes weeks. I use it on all my tool handles, horses, benches and small sheds that are not stained. As far as insects go, they like wood...oiled or not.
Boiled Linseed oil is not boiled today. They add chemicals to it to make it polimerize faster. (Which makes it poision) My dog has a habit of licking the Linseed oil off after I'm done and he's been doing this for years. If I used "boiled" Linseed oil it would likely kill him. Anyway I'm not making furnature but outside wood frames that require protection.
This new client wants his frame stained and I don't think any stain will take if I have used Linseed oil on it. I want to apply one product that will seal and stain. What is the popular sealer/stain product that Timber Framers are using?

Thanks Thane.

So raw does eventually dry... And I know boiled is not truly boiled. It has toxic chemical driers added to facilitate the drying.

funny that the dog likes the raw stuff. It's made from flax after all. I like flax pizza crust.

Good topic.

The most durable finish for outdoors (IMO) is marine-grade spar varnish. You can add an oil-based tint or dye to it to color it, for a one-step application. Lots of fussing around to find the right tint but it works. Except pine, which seems to come out blotchy no matter what stain you used. CB.

For some great linseed products check out Tried and True... I've used it on furniture and I've used the beeswax version on a frame.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/

Not an outdoor product - but he uses the purest of the pure that he can get as a raw starting place.

Clark - does the spar varnish harden into a barrier finish? I've always been leery of barrier finishes on green wood. I've had some bad luck with poly and varnish - hazing, cracking, etc.

Have you a secret? Or does it work?

-Mike

Use the "Watched" selection under topic options for emails about posts to each thread. I think that's what you want.

Jim Rogers

Boiled linseed oil can be either boiled or have heavy metal driers, I've seen some manufacturers recently that do state which process they use, sorry no names stuck. Raw around here turns gummy and black, we are pretty humid and have lots of floating goodies in the air that stick to it.

For indoor work you can cure the blotchies in pine using a stain conditioner or a washcoat of a compatible clear finish cut about half with a compatible thinner. Basically filling the rising and falling grain somewhat that is soaking up a lion's share of the stain trying to get uniform absorption of the color. Notice a blotch is where there is other than straight grain. It's those long softwood fibers at fault.

The only time dry rot has made any sense to me is in the old use I've seen a couple of places where they are describing a film forming finish over green timbers causing dry rot. Basically the painter turned the timber into compost in a sealed bag. Film forming finishes on large exterior timbers is a definite no-no unless you can guarantee that all checks are sealed. What I've seen is liquid water entering checks, it must then evaporate as a much larger volume of vapor which the film inhibits. This causes the moisture content of the entire surrounding area to rise above fiber saturation point, that point where not only the microfibrils are saturated but there is excess moisture in the lumens, this supports decay fungi. I've scooped out hot compost by hand from behind the film. A water repellant but vapor permeable finish is the ticket, problem is 3 or so coats of that and you have a film. I have noticed decreased checking when we prestain green wood. My feeling is that it decreases the moisture gradient in the timber. You don't have a rapidly drying and shrinking shell around a still fat swollen green core. It moderates the rate of surface drying. All of these are games of rate that depend heavily on the uncontrolled conditions around you. Dry too slow and the wood stains or rots, dry too fast and it turns to toothpicks, somewhere between those two ditches is the road.

nice post, Don

Finishing is a balancing act. Some swear by varnish, others a penetrating oil. Different applications require different applications.

(cute, huh?)

Again, nice post.

I am building this frame from Eastern White Pine. The timbers are freshly cut and it will be 3 weeks before I am finished cutting joints. Should I wait until then to apply sealant/stain so the wood can dry a bit first?
So I'm getting the impression that there is no industry standard here for timber frame weather protection and wood grain enhancement. I'm sure brands like Minwax must have something that would do the job. I'm going to google minwax right now.

Thane

try a cuprinol if you want some chemistry.
or a cabot's clear.

lots of stuff out there. how toxic do you want to get? and who will you believe. plenty of marketing hype, for sure.

Take a look at Land Ark interior and exterior wood finishes it can be had with color pigments added. I believe it was originally developed for use with large green timbers.
I have not had much experience with this product, but I am currently applying it to my frames interior.

kfhines

Actually, I was thinking that waiting might just be the best strategy of all. Let them breathe for a while: at least 6 months.

Two topics on board speaking of breathing, corn and timber. I like to breath as well. I do understand to a point the application of sealers but are they all they are cracked up to be. bmike mentions hype, what is the ultimate goal? I have a deck on my house with no sealers what so ever and it is working on 15 years, cedar and tamarack. I would happily replace it or pieces of it in 5 years in stead of reapplying any numerous coats of sealers with their attached cost and time and then turn around and have to replace pieces on top of it. The same goes for interior, let it breath.

Tim

I'm inclined to agree with you guys on letting the wood breath and season for a couple of months before attempting to apply any sealer. I will speak to the client to see if that would be possible.
Thane

Sikkens specifies that it's finishes (which I consider to be films) must be applied at below 19%. The FPL did some studies and found that applying finishes to wood with any weathering greatly diminished their life because the finish is applied to damaged fibers.

might be something of interest in their finishing techlines;
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/public...amp;unit_id=TMU

Don, is the 19% for the surface of a timber or all the way through? Also does this apply Land Ark, it has been suggested to apply Land Ark to fresh sawn timber as a way to keep blue stain to a minimum, does this really help.

Tim

Mike:

Spar is a flexible finish. So it can move along with the wood. I'm not talking about building up a thick, water-tight shell on green wood. As you and Don point out, that leads to other problems. I'm just saying that it's more resitant to UV, and doesn't seem to dry out the way oil-based finishes do.

For interior timbers, we use our own variation on the Recipie listed here.

It's a lot of work to heat up the spirits, melt the wax, etc, but we love the result. CB.

Thanks.

I don't have a can of Sikkens right at hand I believe they want it dry to the bone, they do have a coating to apply until its dry. The reason is that it blows the film forming finish off if applied to green material, I'm not a fan but sometimes the customers know more than I do. I've only used LandArk a couple of times and don't see that it would be a problem on green. I suspect it poisons the food source and prevents bluestain that way. The ways to stop blue are to deny it moisture <~25%MC and it can't grow. Deny it oxygen, ponding or sprinklers do that. Poison the food, there are chemicals that do that. The main advantage I see to winter cutting is that the surface dries to below bluestain range before the temps warm up and so it doesn't get a foothold. I was dripping wet and stickering green lumber today hoping it'll dry quick enough to avoid it in these temps and humidity. Some days you pays your money and hope for the best.