Hi Guys, my brother bought a piece of land which included an old house and barn. The house and barn are a bit of a mess, his initial though was to tear everything down and build new (he’s building an office). He’s now considering trying to salvage the barn, maybe put a frost wall under it, replace the sills, insulate it, etc and use it as his office. He asked me to look at it as I have some timberframing experience. I took a timberframing class, built the 12’ x 16’ “Sobon Shed”, a 28’ x 36 barn with a 12’ x 36’ shed addition and have volunteered my services with area timber framers to gain additional experience. I do not profess to be an expert by any means.

My initial thought in looking at the barn is that it’s not worth trying to save. I looked at it yesterday and went out today to take some additional measurements. A few stats:

Dimensions of Barn: 38’ x 46’
Four Bents spaced about 15’ 4” apart
I don’t know the roof pitch, maybe 8/12 or possibly 9/12
About 15.5’ feet from the ground to the eaves

Timber Dimensions

Tie Beams: 6.5” x 7”
Exterior posts: 5” x 7” (the rafters bear on the 5” face)
Interior posts: 5” x 7”, some additional timbers scabbed to the side of these at some point
Principal Rafters: 7.5” x 7.5”
Common Rafters: 3” x 5”
Top Plate: 6” x 7”, scarf joint at midpoint

Not sure when the frame was built, maybe between 1820 and 1850?. It’s not scribe rule, looks like square rule to me. Many of the timbers are hand hewn but the common rafters and top plate are sawn. It looks like the place has been hacked up several times, I would doubt that all the timbers were original.

There are a lot of band-aids holding the frame together. A few thoughts that I had:

(1) Spacing of the bents is a big concern, just 4 bents on a frame 46’ long, 15’ 4” is a big span given the dimensions of the timbers. The bents are supporting a huge amount of weight (especially the two interior bents). The tops of many of the posts have either failed or are in the process of failing. Note that in one of the photos there is steel rod bridging from the principal rafter to the tie beam. I don’t know if this would be original? Maybe they noticed early on that the posts couldn’t withstand the outward thrust and added them? Steel cables, iron plates and assorted hardware added in various point over time in an effort to stabilize the barn.

(2) Timbers seems a little undersized given the loads they’re carrying.

(3) Tie beam on the last bent has withdrawn from the back post, it’s broken nearly in half about mid-span to due to settling of the granite foundation under the back part of the barn.

(4) There is a house with a 20 x 30 ell that is attached to the barn. It’s attached near the front of the barn going 20’ back (gable end of ell against barn). Maybe this is acting as a buttress and providing additional support to the second bent from the front? What happens when you rip of the ell?

Maybe I’m being too cynical but I don’t see how this is worth trying to save. The right way to do would be to take it down, piece by piece, replace the rotten members and possibly put the bents closer together and/or add beefier posts. However, I think it would get to the point where very little of the original frame would be saved and would bear little resemblance to the original structure.

Try to maintain what is there but brace it up with dimensional lumber? I don’t think that would work either and would require so much bracing/reinforcement that it would be ugly and wouldn’t look anything like the original structure.

He’s got a quote from a guy to jack up the frame, clean out the crap underneath and replace with gravel, compact the gravel, replace the sills, pour a frost wall and set the frame on the frost wall. Quote is about $50K and there would still be a lot of work to do to shore up the frame. The math isn’t working for me. I think the cost of trying to save this frame would exceed the cost of putting up a new frame of the same dimensions. That might be okay if this frame was something special (oak or chestnut frame, big timbers, solid joinery, bents were closer together) but I don’t see how it could possibly be worth trying to save this frame?

Anyone have any advice? If someone explains how to attach photos I'll do so (I've been looking for instructions for an hour).

Joe

For attaching photos, it's my understanding that there is a new function below, if you click on "switch to full reply screen"...and then to the "file manager" button where you can browse to your photos and upload them.
Try it and see if it works for you....

see if this works

I think it worked, here are five more photos:

A few more photos that might be intersting. Note in photo 21 where the top of the post is failing.

Jim, thanks for explaining how to pictures, I never would have figured it out on my own.

Joe

JoeB:
You're welcome

Hi Joe:

You list your location as "Buxton." Is that Buxton, Maine? If so I'm about a half hour from you.

That's the biggest bent spacing I've ever heard of. Timbers are definitely undersized. All those patches look like a hodge-podge and as you say were likely required b/c of the big spacing and undersized timbers.

Kind of looks like a money pit. Too bad. Must have been built by a farmer rather than a framer/joiner. Perhaps the original owner had a get rich quick scheme...throw up a barn and get haying ???

Might it be possible to build a smaller structure out of the timbers? What do you know about the history of the farm?

Yes, I'm in Buxton. You're in Westbrook at 21 Pride Street or is that another Don Perkins? If so, the barn is just a few miles from your house.

My uncle lived at 21 Pride Street, RJ Grondin. Maybe you bought it from him, I would guess that he moved our in the early 90s (92?). I used to mow the lawn for him when I was in school.

Joe

was re-reading your first post...

I'm guessing you're a bit early on your date-range for this barn (1820-1850). Though it's hard to tell, I'd say it's closer to 1900. Do you have a picture of the outside of it?

Hi Joe,

I'm in Raymond... The Westbrook Perkins is someone else. Neat that you're so close. Where in buxton is this barn?