Ken,

Nowhere did I say you were wrong, only that I disagreed. You gave a didactic and kurt response / answer without really asking any question of the poster. I'm not really looking for answers nor to do an analysis of his project - but in another thread on barn repair I stated as I will state again here - folks commenting on engineering / safety / etc. should have a clear idea of the project in terms of loads / species / sizes / design intent / etc. before jumping to conclusions. Your post went from zero to lawsuit in no time - is that encouraging to these folks you claim to be in 'discovery'? While you may have tried to be short with your words - what I read was that 'This thing is going to fall over, you are an idiot for not pressuring your clients, and you should have fired them!'.

I'm one that would argue heartily that timber framers need to be smart about design / engineering / codes / etc. What I'm not so sure on is 'tried and true' practices. Back it up with some data and I'm with you... and I agree that a novice shouldn't take on complex trusswork or structures - no doubt - but I do believe it is a disservice to write off anything outside the sliced Wonder bread mentality of so so many frames that I see stateside - same bents over and over with no regard to function, packed into tight little bays...

And 68' roof systems are VERY different from a 25' outdoor pavilion. I agree.

Thanks again ken for your valued opinion.
I certainly would not be designing any Hammer beams. As of yet, I have been unable to fully wrap my head around them. I wonder if you could make me a diagram of a typical Hammer Beam which clearly points out forces and their direction.
Also Ken, I disagree with Mike when he said you were a disservice to the trade. It is culmination of everyones response within the thread that will give me a sense of direction. Though I may like someones responce more than another, I have read them all and they will affect future decisions.
Thane

Hi Thane,

Well said ! and thanks for those kind words.

I shall look out some papers that I have on hammer beams and email these to you. Even the heavist of heavy weight engineers argue over how hammer beam roofs work though I think that the work done by Robert Mark and his students at Princetown University goes a long way to providing the answer - this is featured in Timber Framing No 30 (9 December 1993) and also check out Ed Levin's follow up article in Timber Framing No 48 (June 1998) which includes load diagrams.

Regards

Ken Hume

Umm, hey, I never said Ken was a disservice to the trade. I did say that I felt laying down a prescription for specific lengths of bays without real connection to the function / use / form of the space was a disservice to the trade and to what wood can do.

Please re-read my post.

Hi Mike,

I am prepared to accept that a genuine misunderstanding over your words has taken place and hence I hope that you will accept my apologies in good spirit for any consequent over reaction to same by me.

Regards

Ken Hume

Oops! (Face red with shame) Now that you have reworded it, it has become even more clear, and I will have to agree with you.
We should not be confined to thinking inside a 500 year old box. A lot(most) of the Timber Framing applications have changed since Colonial American times. Not only that, it can be fun thinking outside the box.

Thane