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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Thane O'Dell] #20666 07/16/09 07:13 PM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight:

Hi Thane and thanks for the reply.

I ( and maybe many others) are looking forward to your pics and maybe helping you to get to know and feel comfortable enough with your tools to attempt to use them safely.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #20939 08/19/09 01:38 AM
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Hello everyone tonight:

Sorry that I have been away so long but I have been away for a spell for a little R and R.

Hope that everyone is well and enjoying our return at least in this area to summer, it has been dreadfully wet around here.

One of my land mark barns in this area just bit the dust, age finally caught up to it and I guess we could add neglect on the owners part. One good thing is that a few years ago I visited it and did some sketchings

speaking of barns, on our tour that was part of the Morrisbug TTRAG Conference a few years back we visited a stone Barn near Brockville Ontario, this was one of the most photographed barns in eastern Canada, well the new owners just recently demolished it only the front stone arch remains, and of course any photographs that some of you may have taken at that time--

Do any of you remember it? I would like to know.

You know timberframing can take many hats, but I wonder how many of you have tried your hand at timberframing a mill structure with its many intricacies and huge timber framework members?

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #20940 08/19/09 07:17 AM
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Hi Richard,

I suppose that wind and water mill work is our speciality.

Our current windmill project in Barbados has arms that were single piece greenheart - 68 feet long 14.5" x 11". The main windshaft is also greenheart octagonal 24" x 24" with the vertical drive shaft the same dimension but in purpleheart.

We have been unable to find replacement single piece arm timbers and so will make up new multi piece arms with a 40 foot centre section and 20 foot outers with 6 foot overlapping scarf joints.

This kind of project is not for the feint of heart. Windmills are very dangerous beasts. People regularly get killed.

Regards

Ken Hume & Son


Looking back to see the way ahead !
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #20970 08/25/09 06:50 PM
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Hello,
it's m' 1st time commenting here and maybe we can say what I have to write is more structural rather than relating to this particular topic. I find the topic, if you can call it that at this point, interesting but following it , oh, taxing. Anyway here goes- This line has gotten way out of hand to the point that there are so many entries that they don't fit my screen -and I have a big screen. I have to scroll to the right- or is it left- to read. Can it not be broken up? It has become a giant monopolistic subject and needs to be reigned in and like AT&T broken down into its constituent parts, Or maybe eliminated and allowed to regenerate... I don't know...
Don

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Cecile en Don Wa] #20971 08/25/09 06:57 PM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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Don:
If you go to the top of the thread and click on "Topic Options" then select the last one at the bottom called: "switch to flat mode" you may find it easier to read.

Jim Rogers


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Jim Rogers] #20981 08/26/09 07:08 PM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Thanks Jim, that is better. Just getting the hang of this, it seems there is a lot to figure out.

Don

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Cecile en Don Wa] #21014 08/29/09 01:10 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight:

Thanks for coming on board Ken with that interesting update on your windmill project in the Barbados.

I for one take a real interest in mill construction having been involved with all 3 waterpowered mills at Upper Canada Village over the years in one way or another.

One thing that amazes me is the fact that each one was constructed no doubt without a major input from the powers above but mostly from a millwright with many years of experience.

At the output during preparation of each ones construction site, a thorough knowledge of the finished mill with its equipment had to be well understood.

Take for instance the Mulley Saw mill, the placement of the water Barrel or as some refer to it as the Rose Wheel at the extreme lower level of the site had to be within at the very least a few inches of both side and vertical placement so that as the stories were added and the machinery put in place things had to be right "on",.

Ken--Your reference to the search for 68foot timbers for the windmill arms brings to my mind what a monstrous construction it trully is, just the mast and main pinion timber, not to speak of the massive bearings to hold and contain this timber, along with the breaking system, and thrust problems that one would encounter during the furies of one of their many hurricanes.

Your problem of putting together shorter timbers by using a 6 foot scarf to reach the 68 foot necessary length seems to be quite a challenge.

As a question that comes to my mind how did you arrive at 6 feet rather than 8 feet or possibly shorter for the scarf, did you use historical or modern methods to arrive at this final size?.

And maybe you could just touch on the scarfing method for everyone visiting thi site.

Thanks again for coming on board

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #21015 08/29/09 08:18 AM
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Hi Richard,

Working on old structures is not necessarily to be thought of in fundamental "new build" design terms but maybe thought more in terms of design evolution where some factors are fixed or constrained as in nature. All greenheart timbers leaving Guyana today are shipped inside 40 foot sea containers and it is this factor that now determines the basic raw building block dimensions for this mill. The new arms are to be made up as per the orginals at 68 feet long and this will be achieved by using two 40 foot timbers for each arm with one 40 foot clear span timber used in the central portion of the arm and the other 40 ft timber halved to provide 2 off x 20 foot timbers that will be then be scarved to either end of the central 40 footer.

If we do some simple arithmetic we can arive at the maximum scarf length possible i.e. 40 + (20 - 6) x 2 = 68.

It gets worse ! Piggy backed onto each side of the 68 foot arms are 41 ft whips which form the spines for the sails and these bring the fully assembled diameter of the sails up to 84 feet all of which is supported at one central point on the 2 foot diameter windshaft.

Some time back on this forum I asked if anyone could provide references to books that contained examples of metal reinforced scarf joints and both Gabel & Will T came up trumps in this respect and the knowledge contained within the pages of those reference books has been put to good use.

The method employed for scarfing is currently under development and so I am somewhat reluctant to discuss this here in an open forum. I am working with a millwright who has over 40 years experience in rebuilding windmills and the combination of experience, brain & computing power will doubtless arrive at an optimal solution given the current constraints. As with natural evolution adopting this design development step solution methodology will either work and the mill live on to crush another day or alternatively if it fails then this type of windpowered sugar cane crushing mill will become extinct.

This site can and does provide a potential powerhouse of knowledge.

Regards

Ken Hume


Looking back to see the way ahead !
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #21043 09/01/09 12:24 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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HI everyone tonight:

Well I finally made it back on, I don't know about all you guys and gals out there but I have been having a rough time signing in sometimes it is pretty near impossible.

Anyway Ken for everyone out there that might be interested in a few more details the mill you are restoring, would you comment on how the power is transfered from the 24" main drive axle to the crushing machinery no doubt in the lower part of the mill.

I expect that a large vertical shaft was incorporated, could you please comment.

The mill structure itself is it of timber frame construction?

The last question that I personally am interested in being quite familiar with placing and running of the grinding stones in a grist mill, is the grinding machinery that handled the sugar cane being an altogether different process, and the daily capacity of such a mill in tonnes.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #21047 09/01/09 08:04 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi Richard,

Currently a large 24 x 24 purpleheart vertical shaft is employed to bring power down the tower from the sails to the horizontal cane crushing rollers. A very long time ago these rollers were mounted vertically and were set in groups of three ? What this means is that the cane was fed through the first set of rollers and then a couple of ladies on the receiving side would take the partially crushed cane and turn this about and feed it back through the second set of rollers. In time this process was automated by insertion of a "dumb lady" plate which automatically received and re-fed the cane back through the second set of rollers. The reason the "dumb lady" name was given to the plate is thought to derive from the practice by the original ladies of chattering as the mill crushed the cane and when replaced by the plate the mill effectively then fell silent. There are no known working examples of these vertical rollers still in exisitance today or so we thought until passing by a cricket pitch one day where we noted a large iron cylinder roller being used to flatten the pitch. This roller had axial grooves cut along the outside of the hollow roll. Closer inspection revealed that this was indeed part of an old vertical roll setup which demonstrated that the rolls were made up from multiple sections stacked one on top of the other and slid over the outside of a large turned wooden post - not dissimilar to the ones recently posted on this website.

Seems that recycling is not a new concept. Sweet !

Regards

Ken Hume


Looking back to see the way ahead !
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