Hi Jim,

I thought that you might like to see a logical progression of the failure of a tieing joint as per Thane's post after a period of 684 years in service :-

The main reason that this building is still standing is that there is another building butting hard up against the sidewall preventing any further movement.

It would appear once again that providing secondary lines of defence can head off catastrophic failure in a building.

To get a measure of scale please note that the cross brace is about 9" wide and 8" thick.



Regards

Ken Hume

Here is a normal assembly house frame in Waldoboro, Maine with the tie and plate flush and an "eaves purlin" tenoned into the ties.


Jim [/quote]

Before we move on, for clarity is the tie in this picture pegged to the post via a teazle tenon? If it is what I think it is there is nothing holding it down but gravity. The post is tenoned into just the top plate only, a good chance it is not even spiked. It does have to lift 4" or so to come apart. There is also sheathing and studs which will have to be over come to fail due to wind and the prying action on the gable ends.

I am going to be using this type of joinery on the addition here at my house. The addition is between two structures, similar to Ken's latest mention of additional supportive structures. The wall system will be of 2" plank and a limited number of post, at least 4, one in each corner, maybe one set in the middle or other convenient location, this is over 43'.

Ken has brought up numerous times load paths and of ways to re directing forces in leggy structures. Will Beemer's recent article in Fine Homebuilding also mentions sips add strength to hybrid buildings. Once looking at the structure as a whole it becomes stronger than if it is looked at individually. I once had an architect go through extreme measures to fabricate a hold down system for the post to foundation connection all the while paying no attention to the single peg at the teazle tenon which was the only thing other than gravity holding down the roof.

Tim

Hi Will - Sweitzers are "the original Pennsylvania barn", originally log then frame and stone or brick, built from 1730 to 1850 in the "barn core region" which is from the northern line of Bucks County to Washington County, MD. Also described as being centeral and south eastern PA. Look for 12:12 pitch saltbox like forebay barns with 6 to 9 foot unsupported forebays. PA barns is a large subject so this is a simplification. Many frame drawings in Ensminger's book show a tie over the plate and another dropped tie up to 4' below the plate, low enough to get a brace into the upper tie.

The one photo of a double tie which sandwiches the plate is from near Mt. Holly, Cumberland County, PA. These "headed tie beams" occure in centeral and western PA into eastern Ohio. The heads of these ties project outside the sheathing at the eaves so this type is identifiable from the road.

Tim - the photo you asked about is of the house you looked at with me in Waldoboro. The one with "thinwall framing" where the corners were a 3x9 and a 3x6 pinned together to make an L. There was were pinned tenons going into both the plate and tie.

Jim

ASIDE:

Will T,

First Scotts, Library of Congress

Brief Description

It would take more research to find out if any of the timberwork has been restored. Big earthquake in 1886, but I bet the timber did a dance with it and most of the restoring was with the masonry.

Yes I recall it Jim.

I also went back to the frame which has me on this topic and viewed it to refresh my mind. It is also 43' long and only the corner post have teazle tenons. All the rest down the wall have none, they are space about 8' apart, with just a half lap.

Tim

Jim, I have never seen even a picture of this double tie. Any one have a picture?

Were shear blocks used as well? What was the configuration of post under this? Why did they use such a thing? Were they trying to span larger distances, hence the shear block question? Could it be a fall back to log construction? Were these timbers salvaged from log barns, as in the case with some fore bay barns?

Tim

Here's a necked tie beam from a humpty dumpty barn from PA we were hired to put back together down here in GA. The tie dropped down onto the post tops through a through mortise that extended tot he top of the post and then the plate dropped on after that.

This would be reverse assembly, I suppose, as the bents were the sections that were preassembled and raised and the plates were dropped on after.

Wish I had a better photo of it. It is very similar to Fig. 17 on page 7 of HATJ.


dropping the plate on.


view of assembled joint.

Modern ETJ with jetty. THese are the 2nd level (1st floor if your English, 2nd for us Americans)posts rising from the jetty to the top plate. Same joint on both ends.



Same building...


And again...

Gabel, That is one awesome piece of architecture!

Maybe a little off topic (Sorry Jim), but I have to ask a couple of questions..

Whats the wood species?
What's the infill?
Did you all orient any particular face characteristics to the weather? What means were used to have that exposed timber last?

Seeing the frame from the outside is really nice.

Hi Gabel,

This house appears on Jordan Finch's blog spot as part of his gallery of work. Check out :-

http://picasaweb.google.com/finchwoodworks/FWPortfolio02#

Who built this you or Jordan ?

Regards

Ken Hume