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Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Housewright] #21752 11/12/09 10:59 PM
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Will Truax Offline
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Don, I think Jim is talking about a different tool, also often referred to as a Mortise Ax.

Jim, I looked into this pretty deeply a few years back when I acquired a few of them (Yes, I have an Ax problem, now fully under control) The name is a bit of a misnomer, I don't believe they were intended for use in mortising, but are a tool used by Logcrafters from the Nordic countries, used primarily to cut a dovetailed slot in the endgrain of window & door wells to let in what we know as a buck.

Gränsfors Bruks still sells them, and lists them under log building tools and I know they are still used in this way by traditional logcrafters from that area.

I found both of mine in areas settled by folks from those regions where there was a long logbuilding tradition.


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #21754 11/13/09 05:42 PM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Hi,
sorry my images don't come up so good I just can't figure out which method to use to set them on here. Anyway, if this comes over clearly you can see that the head of this mortising ax is almost exactly the same form as the French bisaiguë. This is an austrian mortising axe with a double bit or kreuxaxt, the one from Gransfors is, we can presume, a Scandinavian version of the same thing called Stemmaxt but then with a single bit and possibly more suited to work in softwoods which are more abundant in Scandinavia, which is not to say it was not used in timber framing.

So what we have under the English word "mortise ax/axe" is, in French, bisaiguë, in German, kreuxaxt, and in Swedish, Stemmaxt, in Dutch, steekbijl,... . Even though this French tool pretty radically differs from the one in the picture they both have similar origins.

This is from that French web site regarding the bisaiguë :


"This tool consists of two complementary parts – a chisel at one end and a mortise chisel at the other. In its long form, it is French in origin, and probably is the descendant of a much more hazardous tool, which had a longer handle and shorter head. It was known as a twybill, a piochon in French, and a Kreuzaxt in Germany...."
[url=]mortise axe[/url]

That web site goes further into it including pictures of it in use., all you have to do is in the English version type in "mortise axe" in the search space.

It seems mortising axe can mean many different things. Still, depending maybe on where you are, it is just as much a timber framing tool as a broad axe, an auger or or a slick. I think further, its use would be straight-forward in theory but in practice would take a lot of practice. That one there with the pink background is for sale second hand, maybe I'll see how many €'s they want for it...

Greetings

Don Wagstaff

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #22582 02/08/10 03:59 PM
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timber brained Offline
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What type of axe are we using most for joinery? Carpenters hatchet or simply a felling axe?
I always wondered how the so called mortise axe would be used? Is it actually possible to cut a good mortise with one of these? tb

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: timber brained] #22653 02/12/10 10:35 PM
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Will Truax Offline
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TB- I have been meaning to answer Dave's query about what axes for joint cutting, but guess I'll do it here-

There are three I lean on most, all of which I've been using for pushing twenty years. Two of them I call hand axes, (one handed, but a bit bigger and with a longer handle than what I think of as a hatchet ) and tend to always use them interchangeably, one in either hand, switching the user to my dominant left depending on circumstance. The first is a Snow & Nealley Hudson Bay Pattern, http://www.snowandnealley.com/products/axes/pbka18.htm I like this pattern for chopping joints, I find the strait top and the beard are advantageous for chopping close up to the layout lines. Like some of my other axes I've reworked the bit so it's a bit thinner than it was originally. The small Side Ax I use is an antique made by Garden City and is the finest piece of steel I own, so hard I have to use diamond systems to hone it, but not so much so that it chips easily. It's hung to be swung with my left hand , on a curved handle like you might see on a bigger broad ax. When I'm roughing a joint bigger than a housing, a scarf or a deep dap, I do reach for a two handed ax, but one still on the small side, in the “boys ax” class. 2 ½ lbs and with a handle only about 24” long. I both want to stay close to the work, and to avoid over-penatration by not multiplying the force too much.

I have of course, also experimented with the Mortise Axes I own, so lets revisit that question here -

I stand by my statement above, I don't believe such axes were ever used to cut mortises, at least in the way we think of it, in heavy timber. And that they were and are a logcrafters tool common to the Nordic countries. I'd based this on three things, where in the country I'd come across the most examples, their continuing inclusion in the Gränsfors Bruks catalogs, and the expert use of one filmed in Norway for episode 1313 of The Woodwrights Shop “Timber Building in the Land of the Midnight Sun” - Stave Churches and expert ax-men, not yet out on DVD and no longer any VHS anything here except boxes in the attic.

I did look again when you brought it up, opened up my copy of Ancient Carpenters Tools. Mercer cites the inclusion of the term Mortise Ax in these early colonial records http://bit.ly/awohpn as evidence that they were used by English colonials. He also describes them as having an alternate name “Post Ax”, and describes their use in making Post & Rail fencing, in cutting out the material between two bores in fence posts to form relatively quick & dirty mortises for the rails. Like many of us, I typically dismiss much of Sloane's writings as revisionism born of supposition, but I think he got it right on pg 63 of Reverence for Wood, this page reprinted on pg 22 of Miles Lewis's fantastic must see collection of photos and drawings on the history of framing - http://mileslewis.net/pdf/history-of-building/traditional-framing.pdf Also worth your time - http://mileslewis.net/pdf/history-of-building/puncheons-and-dragons.pdf Some repeated images here, but the section on lifting engines is also a must see - http://mileslewis.net/pdf/history-of-building/european-develpmts.pdf

Some of what I am about to say is supposition. So it may seem somehow overly critical and ironic that I'm about to suggest that many are wrong when they describe the use of mortising axes. But there unfortunately is no way to completely avoid some educated guesswork in doing so.

If you google around, you find a number of emphatic descriptions and drawings of their use, sometimes driven by mallets, mortise chisel like, or even more curiously, to pare shoulders in the cutting of tenons. Sometimes it is suggested that they are found in different widths to accommodate differing tenon widths, (though I would argue this is evidence against, in that examples found 2” and less are uncommon enough to be described as rare) some of these descriptions are found in recently published books.

I now believe the name is not a misnomer. But that the name, the odd shape, and the long defunct use the name is based in, has led to much false supposition. That for some while now folks have been assuming that they were used to cut the still commonly found mortises in historic timber framing. But in truth the name is based only in the crude mortises once so commonly found in post & rail fence. (how may miles of this once existed but has now returned to the earth – How many pairs of hands spent day upon day riving both posts and rails and mortising the posts) Fences and mortises that never entered the mind of those wondering, because such does not really exist any longer.

Much of my assertion however, is not based in supposition. Instead it is based in the long and almost daily use of axes to cut timber frame joinery. It is the daily doing, that teaches how to both best use axes, and conversely, how it was they were not used.





"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #22656 02/13/10 01:10 AM
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The axe I use is similar to the Snow and Nealley you linked to. About 24" and 1 3/4 pounds. The head is of a similar pattern, i.e. the rectangular body with an angular beard on the bottom, but I don't think the edge is that curved. I'll have to get a pic of it.


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Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #22657 02/13/10 01:31 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Interesting, Will. I have tried to clean the triangular sections left after the boring machine with my common joinery axe, it is not a practice I continue. The axe head is too short. I can imagine a design which would do this, a longer head that would reach into the mortice without banging ones knuckles on the surface of the timber. The morticing axe as pictured in Miles Lewis's collection almost fit my thoughts. But I see a slick mounted in such a manner to resemble a axe. I just go back to my slick it works very well for me.

I could go along with the fence theory.

Nice pdf from Miles Lewis.

Tim

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: TIMBEAL] #22685 02/16/10 01:40 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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Tim – That is just what I'm speaking of. I too experimented with using an ax to remove the waste after roughing out mortises, mortising axes included. And came to the same conclusion, there is no efficiency there. It is chisel work.

Interestingly, though I didn't mention it above, a number of the descriptions I found refer to removing this triangular waste with a mortising ax. Which is a large part of how I came to the conclusion that these are mostly the musings and suppositions of folks who have not cleaned out many mortises, or taken an ax to many timber frame joints at all for that matter.

Jim – I just rolled back up to the part of the thread where you introduce the mortising ax question, and see that you were wondering out loud if this was a fence post mortising tool. What led you to to wonder if that was a probability?


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #22766 02/22/10 11:54 PM
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Will Truax Offline
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In following Jim's Up & Down Saw You Tube links I came across this nice video on Axe forging at Gränsfors Bruks and Logcrafting in Sweden, Good stuff - 9:35, but you may find you wish it was longer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCpDsxUHVc&


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: Will Truax] #22769 02/23/10 11:49 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Nice pick, Will. Things I noted. No cleaning up with a chisel, either. Any video with a cat in has too be good. The inlay was set in place cold, they skipped reheating just before they put it in the big hammer, but they did. The resounding thud just as the wedge is driven into the handle seemed unreal but final. I loved the knot just under the spoon bit, probably not planned, just life.

Tim

Re: Joinery with an axe [Re: TIMBEAL] #22775 02/23/10 08:02 PM
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Housewright Offline OP
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Thanks Will, I will send that link to some friends who may not see it here!

Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
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