I wonder how many of us in this forum make their own pegs in relation to those bringing them in from specializing producers. Do you lathe them? shave octagonal pegs on a horse(probably the best)? Hard to find clear wood to use for blanks? Is it worth the effort? or better left for the specialists? Who are some the better peg sources?
A lot of questions, I am just interested because we all need them, and a lot of them, but there are many different approaches to acquiring them. tb

We, my friends and I, tried splitting blanks from a block of clear wood with a froe. And making our own pegs from this stock with a shaving horse.
It was fun, but the block we chose didn't have the straightest grain wood in it and the pegs weren't the best.

We then took regular oak boards and cut them on a table saw into squares just a slight bit larger then the peg diameter and then shaved these into pegs.

We carefully inspected the peg stock for cross grain lines and usually the draw knife would catch on these lines and break the peg while we were trying to shape them.

We found this method to be fairly easy.

When we bought pegs we'd sometimes shape them on the shaving horse increasing or creating some taper for the draw boring of our frames.

I acquire nice straight blocks(Oak) from a friend who takes trees down. I then split, Draw into a tapered octagon then drive through a nominal Die. As far as buying pegs... I can't imagine.
How much is a lot?

Thane

If you burn firewood you have a good supply of peg stock. You can pick through for clear stock with little twisted grain. Red oak is probably the most common, black locust the best, but I have seen red maple and even spuce pegs in old frames. Any hard wood will do.

Mark the end of the piece, split with a froe into the rough sizes you need. Shaving with a draw knife and a horse is easiest and shaving horses are useful for other tasks, but if you do not want to make a horse, pegs can be simply shaped with a chisle or put them in a vice and use a draw knife, especially if you are only making a few.

Several old books tell to split the stock out so there is no cross grain rather than sawing the "stuff".

If you are using green wood, the pegs will dry out fairly quickly.

I bored holes in my shaving horse so while I am shaving I can quickly test the fit.

Using firewood and a horse I can make pegs at a cost of $.50 to $1.00 each.

I have 18" firewood so I put a point on both ends of each piece to get two pegs.

Driving them through a die sounds quick and easy, too.

Jim

i'd love to get my hands on a froe, but until then have made these with an axe and a block plane. the way i've worked it is to split boards off the outside of the block, then split those into 1 1/4" blanks, square them up with the axe, put the taper on with the axe, go octagonal with the axe, then clean it up with the plane. if you hit a block that doesn't seem cooperative, that's firewood.

it's a nice sound when the peg goes in the bucket. something to do at this time of year, kind of leisurely, getting ready for next year's projects. i've used black ash as it splits nice, keeping to the living wood.

here's something similar- if you cut a peg from a 2' block, make it a bit fatter than usual at the front 1/3, it makes a traditional Oji-Cree toy. i don't know the proper name; we call it a snow snake. when there's a crust on the snow you can throw this along the ground and it scoots, jumps and dives like a living thing. it's good to make several because they do get lost until spring sometimes.

We just made 190, 7" long pegs tapered on both ends for a plank wall, 3 pegs per edge, 30 planks down each 43' wall. This was in the kitchen in the evening right at the table. I screwed the horse to the bench and make kindling with the shavings, the stuff is like gasoline. We only made 25 regular pins for the main frame, I will have to add 20 more for the rafters.

Speaking of pegs for plank walls, does anyone know if the original pegs for such were tapered on both ends? Jim D., have you seen any of late? I find them easy to engage the next plank.

As for the questions, shaved for sure. I have only bought pegs once and will most likely not do it again. Finding stock is no problem, try not to use bolts from the butt of the tree. I use mostly red oak and have used soft wood, spruce and tamarack also, along with black locust. Ever notice how locust smells like garbage after it has set for a summer, rank it is.

Tim

I've purchased pegs from Northcott Wood Turning and am very pleased with the quality.

Northcott Wood Turning
http://www.pegs.us/
103 Cheney Hill Rd.
Walpole, NH 03608

Tel: (603) 756-4204
Fax: (267) 378-8897
Email: pegs@northcottweb.com

I would like to point out my reason for not using manufactured pegs has nothing to do with the quality of the pegs. The one time I use such pegs they were from Northcott and the were excellent pegs, I can not complain.

The whole frame which I produce is from scratch, I just like to continue the process and make my own pegs.

Tim

I've only made them once in someone else's shop. He taught me to split the green oak with a froe into square stock, then keep these green pieces of stock in a Rubbermaid storage tub/tote of water until you go to shave them. Keeping them wet and thus more pliable, makes them much easier to shave on the horse- less force, and more control. It was fun and quick. I have my shaving horse about half built at this time, but hope to get back to and finish it in the next couple weeks. I just found the right board to use for the seat plank.

Timbeal. Just curious how many hours total you spend per 100 or so pegs?
Tell me more about this plank wall. I never knew they were pegged. I always thought they were nailed. What dimension planks, how thick,wide ,etc..? What do you mean engage the next plank, are they tongue and grooved, or shiplapped, as well? I'm guessing it is a timber frame, but are there braces as well, or are the planks taking over for the bracing? Hope to see pics, sound real fun! tb

We've bought and made in the past.

We went back to making them because the turned pegs don't deal with a drawbore very well compared to a riven peg.

We shave them into slightly tapered octagons with a pointed end on the shaving horse after splitting out the blanks with froe, mallet, axe, etc.

You don't need a froe, by the way. You can split out the blanks with an axe and a wooden or rawhide mallet. But a shaving horse is a must have if you're doing more than one frame's worth.

Making pegs is a welcome break from the other work. I really enjoy it.

timber brained, the little double ended ones take about twice as long due to the shortness and just more work. Once roughed out and with nice stock you can comfortably make a peg in 60 seconds. If you can keep the pace up that is 60 in an hour, just don't stop. If you are not accustom to the drawknife you will get blisters at that pace. So it is a blistering pace. 50 is comfortable and so to answer your question, a couple of hour for 100. Break it up over a few days and it is fun as well.

If you have more than one person helping it can go quickly. You also don't need a complicated shaving horse. A simple horse can be made in half an hour, which means everyone in the shop can have one, and will give years of service.

I am working on some pictures of the plank wall system and geometric design of it as well. I will present it in another topic at some point.

Tim

I made well over a hundred for a barn that I recently constructed (14x36). I started with hardwood firewood blanks (oak and maple). I squared off the ends, marked planks of quartersawn, split off planks with a froe and finished each with a hatchet. It took about 5 minutes each. They work and look great! Next time I'll build a shaving horse.

Hi Tim

Are you talking about edge-pinned planks? I have not had a chance to see an edge pinned plank wall taken apart but I assume the pins are double ended.

Can you post a photo of your portable shaving horse?

Jim

Its funny because one framer told me that he would only drawbore if he would be using freshly shaven pegs(because of the flexibilty), and then another framer, who always drawbored every frame, was using turned pegs, brought in, and they were as dry as they could ever be.
I have not gotten around to buiding a shaving horse yet, but I have always known I would need to eventually. What else do you end up using the horse for other than shaping pegs?
Anyone have some decent drawings, plans of a shaving horse, that they would share? tb

Hi everyone tonight:

good thread on wood pin making

My experiences in this regard is similar to some of the obove comments but I will add other remarks that have came from years of erecting traditional timber frames.

We always used red oak (green), cutting the blanks from a straight grained section about 16" long.

With a froe we split out rough squares a little better than 1.5" each way and then using a hand axe brought them down quickly to perhaps 1" --7\8".

We then sharpened them to a very long point maybe 3 to 4", and with a wooden mallet drove them down through a blacksmith made die.

This die was just a 3\4" round hole in a piece of flat steel, the blacksmith would throw it in the forge and heat it up red hot then with a tapered tool he would upset the hole from one way and expand it to the 7\8" size that we usually required for the large members of our frames, He also made up for us sets of
3\4" , 1" and 1.25" which once in a while the historic frames required.

The upsetting created an uplifting on the upper side and would peel off the excess wood easily as you pounded the pin through.

We then placed them in a pail of lard on end when they were finished, and the lubrication added to ease of pounding them home on the day of raising.

at times the pins would want to split when the drawbore was too heavy, it was at this time that we would wrap a piece oflight rope around the end of the pin a few times to support the fibres in the straight grained wood so the insertion of the pin could continue.

NH

Send a PM to Jim Rogers. He's got one from an old book with most of the dimensions. That's what I used to make mine. You can find one of his posts in the "Tool Forum". I've seen a number of horses with peoples own personal variations and modifications, but they all are very similar. I like making the legs removable, not only for portability, but so that you can also set up the horse across sawhorses if you so choose. That way you can easily hang the horse on the wall and just pull it down and set it on the horses without messing with the legs if you don't want to. Just peoples own preferences.

Great Post NH. I bet you could make a few hundred in the time it would take for me to make 20.

Here is another good go at pin making. Jim R. linked a picture of my simple horse, I just checked it and it didn't work. I have forgotten my password to photobucket, so I need to look into that. The hoops we have to jump through to post pictures, takes it right out of me.

http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=20364&page=2

I keep hearing about pins driven through a die. I have only seen shaved pins. How often were pins constructed in such a manner? Do others see die shaped pins often?

Tin

Another vote for making your own pegs.

I'm reluctant to mention it, but Will Beemer put a video on youtube of me demonstrating pegmaking to some clients. It was unscripted and there's blackflies flying up my nose the entire time.

Two comments I'd add are:
-that it's much easier to make pegs out of very straight stock. We're talking veneer logs here. I like to check the grain by wacking the potential peg stock with a maul first. It also breaks up the large round into more manageable chunks for the froe.
-the newer froes that you can buy (like I'm using in the video) are pretty much useless. Look for an antique or a blacksmith made froe that has lots of thickness (maybe 1/2"?) and taper to it.

Tim's lost pictures....

It's interesting as there seems to be two different styles of shaving horses. One is like as shown in Jim's pics with a cross bar to grab the workpiece. The other style is more like a hammer head, which might be slightly more limiting on length of the workpiece that can be shaved. I am building the hammer head style right now, but I can see where the cross bar style might be a little more suited to furniture builders.

The hammer head may make it easier to get the stock in and out, this is for long stock such as canoe paddles and axe handles and such. For pegs I like the set up I use. In a "real" shop one should have both styles. I hardly use the hammer head with legs I have, and it is hard to drag into the kitchen.

Tim

Hey, thats not the way we are suppose to stack timber. Are you introducing camber into some 8X?

Are those shavings too green for tinder?

Oh and that is a cool horse. I always start in the background when I look at pictures. I saw somebody's foot too.

Mo, are you making fun of my stack of timber? Photo shop will fix it right up. When I want to introduce camber into a timber I use the sawmill and chase the shape of the log with the band, most every frame has one or more of these.

My daughter's foot. It doesn't take long for them to dry enough to kindle a fire, sometime the same day but usually a few days is enough.

Thanks, Jim.

Tim

I have never seen pins driven through a die in an old frame. My impression is it is a more southerly technique (such as Pennsylvania), and for bridge builders in the second half of the 19th century.

I have seen one frame with turned pins from c. 1855 in New Hampshire.

There are three types of horses. This one is in the collection of the Davistown Museum here in Maine. It is made of maple. I made two like it of red oak, but I have a problem with the pegs slipping out from under the head. I nailed some leather under the head but it still needs work.

http://www.davistownmuseum.org/pics/tab1012.jpg

Horses are useful for making tool handles and for scarfing clapboards. I also use mine as a workbench to saw boards on.

Jim

A long while back we used to make thousands of pegs a year, mostly for other framers (a gig we sort of inherited from the Timber Bee) I busted the blanks, from billets cut from veneer grade butts, (in our regional case, pignut hickory because there is no real market for it here, and it can be had for short money) then stacked the blanks crib-like crosshatched to dry and shrink (one of the surprising aspects of this thread for me was the green wood thing, I want them dry for the same reason, to my mind a dry pin will act as a spring in the drawbore, a green one will just take a set and dry bent) for a week to ten, Then it was usually Molly riding the shaving horse - The final tally of all three ops, had us spitting out a pin on an average of every eight minutes.

At that, a peg cost more than most folks were willing to pay, so we now only make what we need. The only drawback being we don't need to buy strait clear butts with any regularity, so no logger is putting them aside on the landing for me anymore, so they're a bit harder to get when I do need one. That said, I still prefer to go that route, I want quick strait grained pegs not expensive kindling.

A really good Froe is a hard thing to find and a joy to use, a bad one is just hard to use. In my experience it should be wedge shaped top to bottom, not be simple flat stock with a bevel ground into one side like a cut edge.

Jim – I too have only found turned pegs in two historical barns, though turned 1” pegs are found relatively commonly in bridges, and specialty lathes to turn them were produced in fair numbers by various companies, sold primarily to bridgewrights and boatyards.

Brad - That head style is known as a “Dumbhead” I've built several of each type over the years, and prefer the “Bodgers” head.

Interesting, I seem to be the only one using a die to finish the pegs to size.
The dies work very well to ensure the pegs are the same size. If I come across a tight peg in use it is not because the peg is too big.

Thane

Will, I was implying to make the peg green for easier shaving. It can be dry when you go to put it in. They seem to dry fairly quickly after you're done.

Thane, how about a pic, or better yet a video?

Will, I am in need of a good froe for this purpose. Gransfors sells one, but the website doesn't give any info on it's construction. I've seen a couple of other on ebay- new made from flat stock with ground edge, antique I've seen are too rough a condition and not useable or are too short.

Since we are on the subject, how long of a blade on a froe do you need for splitting blanks? Is 12.5 inches long enough? Also, how do you know you have a veneer grade piece before you start splitting? Do you just see that there are no knots and no discernible twist in the bark, and then do your first split to see what the grain looks like?

Ok, peg making 101
Since I don't have a Froe, I make do with my Axe.


Here is my Shaving Horse adaption to my work bench.



Once split it needs to be squared to size.


After squaring remove the corners to produce an octagon.
A taper may be introduced at any point in the process.

After I'm finished making a tapered octagon peg, which may be slightly over-size across the flats, I will them drive it through a hardened steel Die which has been inlet into the front beam on my work bench.


Here the Die has engaged the peg.


I was a bit close for this next photo but you can see how the Die works.


The finished round peg with Octagon tapered end.
The process (not including the splitting part) takes about 2 to 3 minutes each.

What are you using for the pivot(spindle) material that the dumbhead or crossbar is pivoting on? Is it metal rod or wooden? I like that it does not have legs, as it stores well and easily can be put on top of a couple of horses or ponies when in use. I will build one, almost immediately, I just need to figure a few more details. What thickness do you recommend in the bench and ramp, and frame material. It looks like 2" oak? tb

It's a 1/2" bolt with a washer between the leg and beam.
Snug and double nut.
Both the leg and head are appx. 2.5 x 4" Ash with the head half-lapped onto the leg. Oak will work as well. There is also a bolt sticking out of the bottom of the leg to act as a foot peddle. There is a small v-groove in the beam to which the head presses against to hold the square pc. on a 45 deg. while it is also able to straddle the groove when squaring.

Brad;

I think 12.5 inces is plenty. I have not split enough wood to be able to tell if it is straight, clear grain before starting to split. Trial and error, which means you need to acquire more wood than you think you need to account for imperfections.

Jim

Brad – 12 ½” is doable, but the longer the better. Wide enough to fully cross a billet being ideal, but the shape is maybe more important than the length.

Here's a maybe, it is described as fully tapered, though they lose me with the “razor sharp” line. Froes do not need to be sharp in the common sense. I 've not seen one, but they might be worth asking after - http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/36_387/products_id/4949

This is a shot of my current horse, Pegasus IV – Taking the Drawshave to Locust for the upend of the Windbracing on the recently wrapped bridge project.- http://twitpic.com/mhfpg

I got a sweet froe off ebay. Here's another potential source:
http://countryworkshops.org/Store.html

My horse is definitely of the dumbhead type. Someday I hope to carve an actual dumb-looking head, maybe something ala Marge Simpson.

I am tending towards the treadle frame like the one Will is using. Will, does the yoke stay in a fixed position or is it allowed to rotate? tb

TB - I'm unsure what you are calling the yoke??? or what you are asking is rotational ?

The only moving part is the Head, it consists of the two verticals, the treadle, the axle, and what I always called the clamp...

I don't tend to bother with plans for small projects so had never looked for any - So I googled around just now looking for a common nomenclature (I'd been releying on memory of a copy of Woodwrights Shop I haven't opened in ten years - Which doesn't completely apply in that Roy only speaks to the dumbhead pattern common to the Southeast) And found this page - http://www.greenwoodworking.com/ShavingHorsePlans - Good stuff there

And they call the clamping piece a Yoke - If puts us in the same place, then no, the one pictured is fixed.

Thane, I'd call that die "Quality Control". Just curious, what diameter does it produce, and how does that compare to the hole you drill? It's too hard to see in the picture, but is the die just a regular hole with sharp edges?

Brad
The peg that comes out is the same size as the die and the pegs fit snug into the holes drilled in the timbers. Quality control? Sure, why not.
The die is a hole drilled through a steel plate with sharp edges and heat treated.

Just as an additional note, my pegs taper nearly the whole length. I do smooth of all four sides but only taper two before I place the next four sides. A tapered peg will find the correct size hole due to the drawbore, the variable will be how far in the peg goes.

Nice links to bodger type shaving horses.

Tim