Gin-pole Enthusiasts,

Here is a link to a past thread that has some more photo and video links of a different and more recent barn raising with a gin pole.

http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=20719#Post20719

The gin-pole it's self is a 32ft, green cut Red Pine with an 8"diameter butt, and is almost 5"at the top. I have a sawyer friend who volunteered at one of my past raisings, and I get my poles from him.

The gin-pole system that I use consists of:

1- 32ft Red Pine (green cut)

1- large pulley. (12" diameter)

1- set of 3 to 1 block and tackle. (6" diameter).

3- 100ft lengths of 3/4" braided nylon rope as guy wires (used by utility companies to pull and string cable.)

1- 100ft length of 3/4" braided nylon rope. (That goes through the pulley at the top of the gin-pole, that connects the load straps used for standing up the bents, to the block and tackle.)

1- 2"x36" nylon loop/choker strap. (To hang the top pulley from the pole)

3 or 4 gin-pole anchor points. (On the Schuster barn my anchor points were three large antique tractors that the customer owned and a large reticulating payloader which was overkill, but oh well!. They were heavy enough, and we could park them where ever we wanted to secure the 5 different placements of the gin-pole. At the more recent Bussey barn, I used custom built anchors made of 4x6 I-beam steel, that where dropped into 8"x 4ft holes in the ground...but depending on the site, I have even just tied the guy ropes to adjacent trees that were large enough.)

2- 4" x 20ft load cinch straps. (Connected to the tie-beam of the bent that is being stood up. Wrapping the strap around the tie-beam a few times before cinching allows you to adjust the length of the strap.)

1- large 3/4" clevis (To connect the two load straps to the pulley rope.)

1- Bullhook (Which is a custom built tool that allows a person to connect to a cable or rope at any point without kinking it. The harder you pull the stronger the connection, and very easy to undo when the pull is finished. .. old horse logging trick.)

I’ll post more instructions in later posts….I hope this helps.

Rooster
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saveabarn@yahoo.com

Years ago, we created a gin pole set-up. I copied a set-up that I saw in a book written by Richard Babcock, and Jack Sobon helped me, with advice, as well.



This type of gin pole is basically and upside down T with braces. This makes the gin pole very stable as it can only pivot back and forth, and can't lean very much if any left and right.

When we use it on a frame raising we usually tie off the back line and two side guide lines to the sills of the frame. This makes it easy as we don't have to chase around for anchors.

Somewhere I read or heard that you shouldn't lean the gin pole over more then 20° from upright.

In the above picture we were testing the system, ropes, blocks, lines and everything, by leaning it more and overloading it trying to push it to twice the load that we were intending to lift at the raising. We did this to test and make sure the entire system was safe.

It didn't fail and we used it and it was great.

Also, we created a wooden winch for pulling in the line. This winch we have called a windlass, but I believe that windlass winches have horizontal axles and that a vertical axle winch is called a capstan. But with the gin pole and our windlass we could lift 500 lbs of timbers with just 10 lbs of pressure on the windlass handles.



This windlass needs some improvement in the drum as the body of the drum is not hour glass shaped and because of this the line doesn't properly slide to self center. And because it doesn't self center it walks either up or down the drum, depending on how we feed it onto the drum.

It was fun to use and easy once you have it all set up.

Although we didn't use a front line to the gin pole I highly recommend that anyone who does create a gin pole uses a front line, that Jack Sobon called a safety line as it prevents the gin pole from accidentally falling over backwards when the load is at the top and the center of gravity is very high.

Hope that helps

Jim Rogers

Jim,
I was reading a link Mo posted on rigging, your gin pole is also referred to there as a pole derrick or dutchman.


I was experimenting with alot of things on my shop. This is a redneck lifting engine I was playing with, some old Lowes store racking. I assembled the first pair of racks, cable braced it and attached an axle between them. This is a shot from the end with a windlass attached on the axle.

An old motor grader blade made a brake that we could drop behind a handle. I then loaded it with rocks as a counterweight.
After we lifted a bent I added another section of rack and rigged it further forward.

I've also seen a pictures of a gin that looked like a tapered apple picking ladder with a windlass at the base.

Don, thanks it's good to know the correct name for different things....

Here are some tools that are part of my gin-pole system.

Custom made pulley.





Bullhook.




Guy wire/rope anchor.



One of the differences I see between Jim's set up and mine is that Jim's uses the block and tackle hanging from the top of the pole directly over the lift/pick point...and I use a single large pulley at top, and use the advantage of the block and tackle to pull the load rope up and through the pulley. I often use the same anchor, both for the lower block and the back guy wire/rope. These anchors require digging a 8in. hole about 4ft deep at a 15 degree angle away from the gin-pole position. Holes can be dug as needed, and then filled in aferwards.

Rooster

Here is a photo of a setup we had last fall to raise a small tractor shelter. The pole was 5" x 6" x 22'. We used it for a rafter at the end of the project. Much of what we did was based on Jim Rogers postings. One thing we did differently was to put the bottom end of the pole 6" into the ground.

John

Well I tried. Can anyone point me to some picture posting info?

So does a gin pole (like Craigs) have to be green? So every time you do a raising you need to cut a new one? Does it need to be green to have some flex?

Lets see if this works.

If not then someone lease point me to the propoer procedure to post pictues please.

John

I used a green cut Red Pine for a barn that I raised in 2004, which came off the property adjacent to the job site. I bought two trees for $10 each. After the raising I stored the pole undercover for 3 years and tried using it again. It was still strong, but it started to bow when under the load of a 34ftx 18ft sawn pine end-wall bent. I was able to brace it, but I could definitely tell the difference between "green" and "seasoned"....seeing as the endwall bent on the previous frame was 32ft x 20ft hand hewn oak, and significantly heavier.

Since then I try to use recently cut or green Red pines for the raisings, since there is a long enough period between them that warrants using a newer pole and spending the $10-$15 to replace it.

So, I got more "flex" out of the seasoned pine pole than the green one.

Rooster

I have always been under the impression that a green stick will flex more than a dry one, this has something to do with the moisture content greasing the fibers on the green stick and not so on the dry stick.(is this my imagination gone wild?) It is interesting you saw different results than that, Craig. Curious if the lift angle and such was different? Was the pole stored with or with out the bark on? Why the noticeable difference even with a lighter lift?

A dry pole is easier to handle, that is a plus. I don't have a nice storage facility to stick a good pole in so it stays outside till I need it and if it look funky I cut a new one. The thing about cutting a new one is you can adjust the size for the situation. It is a real drag to have a pole 6" too short.

Tim

Well, I got the photo part figured out.

Here is the picture.



This was also green and was a lot of work to handle. It was our first time and took a little practice before we were ready for this shot.

Tim,

When I first used the gin pole it was green and I had peeled the bark off. The angle of lift was 60 degrees on the 20ft hand-hewn oak bent with minimum flexion or bending. And the angle of the lift for the sawn pine bent was greater than 60 degrees and the gin pole flexed enough for me to feel that it would snap. It is my opinion that if the flexion was the same for both lifts that happened 3 years apart that the second lift in question using the seasoned pole and the lack of moisture caused it to become brittle and not as solid as if it were green. The idea behind bending a green tree or sapling such as used in a animal snare, once triggered causes the sapling to spring back. This would not be possible with a dry or seasoned tree. The saying "strong enough to bend" comes into play when speaking of green gin poles. IMHO

Rooster

I would almost question the size of the pole in this situation. Maybe a hardwood pole of the same size would not be an unreasonable possibility. Or even two poles.

Tim

This is from the Army Rigging Manual posted earlier.

Hi Jim(R).

Re the pictures of your tractor and gin "tee" pole, why don't you put the "tee" inside the bucket and then you would have a crane ?

Regards

Ken Hume

As long as the hydraulics don't leak down that could assist in certain areas. I used a tractor bucket to hold something in place once, after going around with my water level I came back to my bench mark to find it was not right....back around to see where the issue was, when it was the bucket settling. The tractor bucket was holding my water level bucket, that was a half hour well spent.

The chart, sizing gin poles, is that for a specific angle, say a straight vertical lift? Or can the pole be tilted or the load lifted from a distance, inputting different loads on to the pole? What does the chart really tell us?

Tim

I'm pretty sure I own the copyright,

A gin pole consists of an upright spar that is
guyed at the top to maintain it in a vertical
or nearly vertical position and is equipped
with suitable hoisting tackle. The vertical
spar may be of timber, a wide-flange steelbeam
section, a railroad rail, or similar
members of sufficient strength to support
the load being lifted. The load may be
hoisted by hand tackle or by hand- or
engine-driven hoists. The gin pole is used
widely in erection work because of the ease
with which it can be rigged, moved, and
operated. It is suitable for raising loads of
medium weight to heights of 10 to 50 feet
where only a vertical lift is required. The
gin pole may also be used to drag loads horizontally
toward the base of the pole when
preparing for a vertical lift. It cannot be
drifted (inclined) more than 45 degrees from
the vertical or seven-tenths the height of
the pole, nor is it suitable for swinging the
load horizontally. The length and thickness
of the gin pole depends on the purpose for
which it is installed. It should be no longer
than 60 times its minimum thickness
because of its tendency to buckle under compression.
A usable rule is to allow 5 feet of
pole for each inch of minimum thickness.
Table 5-1, page 5-2, lists values when using
spruce timbers as gin poles, with allowances
for normal stresses in hoisting operations.

Off topic Tim, I was helping relevel a barn and had told my helper to put his thumb over the water level tube while we walked to opposite ends of the building. I couldn't get it to make any sense when I looked around the corner. He was following directions, his thumb was still firmly over the end of the tube.

Interesting ratios, Don.

It should be no longer than 60 times its minimum thickness.

A usable rule is to allow 5 feet of pole for each inch of minimum thickness.

These both come out the same, I had to actually run the numbers.

If when leaning the pole one must ensure the base is well anchored. I was adjusting a pole once, moving it from one side of the building to the other, without taking it fully down, it was snowing and the deck was a little slick, coefficient of friction pops it head up, and down the pole goes, the base slipping out from under. It was like a slow motion movie, and nothing you could do but get out of the way. It was mortice and tenoned into an 8x8 as the base and this is fastened down in numerous ways to the floor, which was undone to move the pole.

Yup, when using water levels watch out for kinks, feet standing on the hose, rocks which can pinch the hose, the bucket running out of water, and items mentioned above, etc.

Tim

I was curious and thought of one way to play with the angles of the pole to see what the forces do, look at what happens not only to the pole but also the guys and anchors, pretty impressive.



Another ratio that comes to mind, in the NDS "the slenderness ratio for solid columns shall not exceed 50 except that during construction l/d shall not exceed 75."

The rapid stress increase when the gin pole is lowered kind of makes me think the angle changed between Craig's lifts but it also made my mind wander, perhaps down a rabbit hole. Dry timber is roughly twice as strong as green but I also know the supple strength of green timber. Load goes to stiffness. There is nothing tougher than a dry knot and this is also the location of weakness. In a green, softer, timber does the stress flow around defects more uniformly?

Don,
Concisely put. May I, with your permission, copy and paste and print this for my own use as a guide to setting up my gin poles? I'll put your name at bottom as author if you wish.
I've never used a gin, have so far hung a block to an adjacent building (sometimes w a mast/pole fixed to it) or a nearby tree. Also attached a block to the forks on a all-terrain telescoping forklift. We always set up guy ropes and holdback ropes.
I've raised more blown over trees than I have buildings with ropes and snatch blocks, comalongs etc. Always w the fallen tree re-raising I climbed nearby tree(s) to hang a snatch block and sometimes tie guy ropes to the "gin tree". I've raised fallen live trees 20' - 90' tall. Most are in wet ground or on ledge so the roots can't hold in the wind or heavy snow. Gotta make safety/strength judgement on the "gin tree", figure what angle I can get and where the lift point on the fallen tree will help most with the overall balance of of the load. Buckingham Co makes top quality snatch blocks and rope handling tools for arborists.

I've gotten some other good rigging rules and diagrams from the Crosby Company catalog and booklets. Grainger used to sell Crosby (made in USA, tested, rated and guaranteed) shackles, turnbuckles, eyebolts, threaded eyes, snatch blocks, wire rope clips etc, but they switched to unbranded mostly chinese imitations of noticeably lower quality. I returned the offshore junk to Grainger and found a distributor for Crosby products in Oklahoma. Crosby also has good training and safety literature. www.thecrosbygroup.com

Rooster, I like your simple design and clear picture of the rope bullhook. Do you have rights to its design? Is it OK for me to have some made for my own use?
Steve

Don,
over time green wood moves from wet,flexible, supple to stable, stiff and eventually brittle. As Tim and Craig say, keeping a cut pole for 5 yrs of use becomes a judgement call at each time of use for present conditions.
There was an excellent speaker at the TFG conf in NH, a man from eastern Europe who was/is a professor at a Univ in the USA. His expertise was wood cell structure, growth, fiber characteristics, all translated to practical use, strength, function etc. I would attend a presentation by him again. Did you ever have a science teacher who made it real interesting and understandable, and you didn't want class to end yet? He was like that. He enjoyed sharing his knoeledge too.

Steve,

Even though I appreciate you wanting permission to copy the bullhook, I don't own rights to the design...so go ahead!

Besides there would be some old time loggers that would be turning over in their graves or haunting me in the woods if I tried to take any "credit" for my design!

Some guys use heavy pipe instead of solid rod. I prefer rod, because I have had tools made out of pipe where the pipe wall has torn out on me and the tool needed to be fixed or replace.
Also, the hooks are ones that attach to the ends of log-chains. I just pulled the pins on them, ground down each end or the rod so that it would slide up into the bottom "fork" of the hook, which give more surfaces to weld together.

For fun I'll have to post a pic of a "real" bullhook...you know, for hooking the ring on a bull, from outside the boxstall or over the fence?...anybody what to fetch a bull without one? haha

Rooster

Steve, help yourself, if you blame me I'm going to deny it
Don't know if it'd be of any help but this gets into some of that.
http://windyhilllogworks.com/Calcs/linepullclc.htm

Yes on the teachers, most have been since school and I enjoy their classes.
I checked the chart I posted above from the Army Rigging Manual. It appears to check for me using some pretty nice spruce poles just about vertically. The table says they can be tipped down to 45 degrees at the stated load. I'll be behind the truck, unless I'm seeing it wrong they seem to be more optimistic than I'm comfortable with.