This summer I'm building a one-off 16x24 barn. In general I'm aware of various options ranging from "T" auger to power mortiser. I'm leaning towards the 1/2" drill and drill guide combo. Keeping in mind that this will be used for one job, what equipment do you recommend?
I'm assuming that you are just talking about hogging material out of mortises? I have the Makita chain mortiser, and a boring machine. I like the control of each. Makita has settings before you plunge, and a boring machine is pretty consistent if you start the bit correctly. I would not hesitate to use the boring machine if I was working with someone and they were using the Makita. Many at first think the boring machine is slower, but with experience, I'm not really sure about that. While it may plunge somewhat slower, it takes less time to reposition. It's not so noisy either, and many find it more enjoyable to use. Now when it comes to drilling peg holes in a mortice, I definitely prefer the boring machine, because it will keep you drilling perpendicular. I like that, if your drill with stand keeps you perpendicular, great. One down side to the drill is that it is so fast that you can quickly blow out the other side. With the boring machine you can feel when your bit tip is poking through and stop before you blow out, flip the workpiece, and drill from the other side(probably with a bit an brace there) so that it leave you with a nice clean hole on that side too. If you are draw boring, you especially don't want to blow out the other side of your tenon, at least I don't, so I use the same technique with a brace and bit there. These old tools are great once you learn how to use them(and they must be sharp), and get some experience with them. Here's my boring machine. I think Jim Rogers told me it's a Snell. Got it through ebay for $125 or $175, can't remember which. Millers Falls is the top dog of boring machines, but not cheap. One day I'll get a millers falls, but this works fine.
Are you talking about mortises or peg holes? If you are talking about mortises, I'd agree with Brad on a boring machine or chain mortiser. However, you can use just a drill without a guide. You could freehand it with a magic marker line on your bit for depth reference. If you go that way most likely, you are going to have a significant amount of chisel work and slick work to get the mortises right.
It really depends on how you want to work. If you are looking for speed and precision the chain mortiser is the way to go; precision the boring machine; and if you just want to work with small economy and no time constraints you could just drill them and then hand tool. Brad mentions that the boring machine is as fast as the chain mortiser. I have only used a boring machine once (so I might not be as fast) but cutting circles instead of rectangles is just going to take longer, due to the chiseling of crescents and corners in the mortise.
As far as the pegholes, you can purchase the "timber framing portable drill guides". Again, it is up to you to balance the price of these puppies against how much you will use the tool. They are great for precision and speed. Also using the right auger bits will allow the drilling of pegholes to stop before blow-out because the screw at the end of the bit will lose purchase before blowing-out the other side. It seems that all the drill guides are in metric. Does anyone know of drill guides for standard bits?
As an aside, I would recommend always drilling the pegholes before the mortises. If you don't there is chance of your bit falling of the axis you want when it freely (no wood to cut) passes through the mortise.
Mo, The exception to peg holes before mortices is when using a boring machine and you are relying on the the feed screw on the boring machines bit to pull itself through the wood and it runs into the predrilled peg hole you then have to deal with that and it is a pain in the neck. So drill the mortice first, peg hole second.
As for speed, on a single mortice, in comparison, there is not a great amount of difference. When mass producing a bunch of mortices the chain mortiser wins out. But I would rather clean up bored round holes than the scrap left after a chain mortiser. I have done both, I find cleaning up round bored holes with the triangle sections( what is the name of those pieces anyway?) easier because I get to find which way the grain is running, I can't quite put my fingers on it, something about it is just easier.
Along this line, has anyone ever tried to adapt a drill press to timber mortising? Regardless, I expect to have to clean up those corners and triangles.
There are such fixtures out there, but 'can be' expensive. The question is how do you keep it from moving on the timber? If it's clamped down, then it's similar to the Makita. You probably can't use your weight on it like you would sit on a boring machine. Not sure though. I have seen one or two "drill press"-like fixtures for drills, but never really examined them. Carlmill, have you ever used the Makita or a boring machine? Where are you located? Maybe you can try out another members machines to help you decide? New Makitas are $1305 plus shipping last I checked, but used ones go for less. I bought a used one with an extra chain for $1000. Used ones occationally on ebay or craigslist, but members often list used ones for sale too here. My boring machine was about $150 and good bits are $25-$45. Jim Rogers can help you with a boring machine and bits if you choose that direction. He posts his tools for sale in this section. I've bought a bunch from him, good guy and good tools. He doesn't sell junk. And everything I've bought from him was sharp!
Tim, that makes good sense with the boring machine. I might have to look at one of those Jim has for sale. I could appreciate not having to put on muffs from time to time.
Haven't seen what you guys are talking about with a drill press. Does anyone have a picture? Whenever I hear drill press, I think mass and stationary.
Re: Drill Guide/Stand
[Re: mo]
#2278202/24/1011:38 AM
Do you have any videos showing the other boring machines? Also, do you have a link to a discussion describing the advantages of some maker's machines over the others? I have a feeling you have discussed this somewhere else.
Loading videos is tricky, it takes hours on our connection. Then you come back and find the battery on the lap top shut down, or someone unplugged the internet connection, or the top to the lap top was shut by accident. All three have happened in the past two days.
I have a video of the Boss as well I am working on uploading, it may be another day at this rate.
I am fond of the Boss, and I also have a few like Brad's, I don't see what all the hype is about with the Millers Falls, is there hype? I have not used on but have seen them used, durability I guess.
I'd like to get a Millers Falls someday. I tried using my Swan with a 2" bit in some old timbers and the carriage popped off the rails. Works great on fresh pine, however. I do have a Boss that needs a little work, maybe that will do work with the big bit.
Tim, my experience with using Millers Falls(in Beggs workshop) was that it was more rigid and had less play, something I would like in my own machine. I am considering making up something like the diagonal braces on the Millers Falls for my machine - bolt on mods of course, so as not to harm the originality of the antique machine. When I get around to messing with it, I'll post of course. The Millers Falls is built to be a workhorse for sure. The mechanism for switching the action is a nicer on the millers falls. On my machine you rotate the rack for moving up and down into position when needed. It's a little more crude than the Millers Falls, but it does work. I have not build a whole frame with it yet, only small projects here and there so far. I like using it. If you are not rushed, I think the boring machine is a nicer experience than the noise and flying chips of the Makita. The boring machine makes nice big chips, that won't get caught in your eye, and it's fun to methodically chew into the wood.
When I picked up my first machine and tried it, before the first hole was done, I knew I needed to rebuild the frame. I just used the head with the gears and cranks. I made an angle iron frame with bracing, the head slides up and down on the angle iron just the same as the iron skids on the wooden frame machine. It was great, very solid. I got tired of cranking a 2" bit through spruce, pine is fine, but spruce is tough. So I changed the gears, it now turns easier but is a little slower. This is all before I knew what the Boss was like. This is why I like the Boss, a sturdy frame, depth stop, nice retraction and a choice of speed to fit the need.
you have 3 things that contribute to that with boring machines. 1. length of the handle arms 2. gear ratio 3. thread count of the lead screw
the trick is to find the right bit to go with your machine to maximize speed and minimize fatigue. the boss machine has 2 gearing options. the way i compare machines and bits is to count the number of cranks to go a certain depth -- say 4" and try to get it as low as possible without having to work too hard (which in addition to just plain sucking can also mean you're torquing your machine and might break something).
Speaking of breaking things... on the machine I adapted new gears to, I incorporated a shear pin into it. The Gear is held in place with a pin running through the gear and the shaft, it is a shingle nail, readily available most anywhere. It gets changed on occasion and I am glad of it. Most machines have roll pins or larger solid stock pins which is not the weak link.
Thanks for the info guys. I'd like to have one someday and trying to get a good picture of them.
Are the handle arms easy to exchange on the machines? Could you set up your gear ratio and screw so that you could substitute different handles depending on the wood? Or is that variable not big enough without hitting your knuckles on your knees? Which one of the three Gabel mentioned is the best to change? Can you find the parts (if it not the handles)? Or are they usually ready to go for a 6'4 125lb man?
Re: Drill Guide/Stand
[Re: mo]
#2281702/26/1012:47 AM
Oh yeah, the Millers Falls has adjustable arms, right? Most other machines are fixed lengths. This was on Gabel's list. It does not apply to all machines. I would think if the crank length is too long it would be uncomfortable to use.
I've been using a wooden Snell and a MF (yes I bought into the hype ) on our project and gotta admit I like the wooden framed machine. Which work for us, since Tammy likes her MF and we can double the output
BTW Gable, I think a lot of us are still waiting for the vid of that sexy one legged machine you showed a sneak pic of a while ago...lol
there's a thin line between hobby and mental illness
BTW Gable, I think a lot of us are still waiting for the vid of that sexy one legged machine you showed a sneak pic of a while ago...lol
Funny you should mention that -- we just got her going again yesterday and she's working great. We are now cutting a frame with only handtools, so I'll shoot some video next week and put it up.
Here is another boring video. The machine is in high gear and the 2"bit has the finest threads I could find. If I was to use the low gears I would have inserted the course thread 2" bit, it still wouldn't have been as fast. The mortice is just 3" deep, I have already completed the other half of the through mortice from the other side. White pine and it is frozen making it a little more difficult, you can see the bit gets hung up as it catches in the bottom of the mortice from the other side. These are 43'-6"x10" top plates, all from the same tree, made up from three pieces, one cut in half and spliced to the other long two sticks.
Brad, you are probably familiar with the type of gears I used, they came out of the front pumpkin on a 4x4 Ford F-250, the spider gears. We also used some out of a Toyota Tercel that worked good too, you get two sets. I spun the ring and pinion off plowing snow years back, I was amazed how little machining was needed to make them work.
Ken, this type of conversation, via video and sometimes you don't even have to say anything, has been talked about here by us before, as well as other on line avenues. I think it is a step above still pictures for sure. I may not be as flashy as some outfits, but I can still get the work done, I am just getting started. Thanks.
You can embed that video right here so folks don't have to cross over to the YouTube site. There's a little icon next to the image insert button on the 'Full Reply' screen. Press that, select which service you are using, and it will appear in the body of a post like this:
1) Mallet, chisel, saw, bit/brace-less than $275- I'll be working mostly alone and not full time, summer in the Adirondacks is too short to get it done.
2) Handheld electric drill, bit, chisel clean up. About $400, will be difficult at the start to get accurate mortises by eye.
3) Add a drill guide like ProTool 460. Cost about $900 all together, could get about 1/2 back at the end of the season.
4) Antique boring machine 250-700. Forget the analysis, my shoulders (rotator cuff) wouldn't make it.
5) Makita chain mortiser. $1000 used, 1300 new, probably 850 back at the end of the summer. Does tongue/finger joints too. Tempting, anybody have one in good condition for sale?
For a used Makita, make "wanted post" in this tool Forum, also keep an eye on ebay(you can set up a search that will automatically notify you if one comes up), watch the for sale section of Scantlings, search Craigslist occasionally (use google to do a search for "craigslist makita chain" or similar searches). You can also do a general google web search or shopping search.
FYI, there's two used ones on ebay right now, one starting at $600 and one in an ebay store for more. Don't forget to consider the shipping cost.
1) Mallet, chisel, saw, bit/brace-less than $275- I'll be working mostly alone and not full time, summer in the Adirondacks is too short to get it done.
2) Handheld electric drill, bit, chisel clean up. About $400, will be difficult at the start to get accurate mortises by eye.
How will you be able to bit / brace a straight clean mortise and not do the same with an electric drill?
You can pick up this drill:
Add a 1 1/2" bit for mostising, and a 1" and 3/4" for peg holes ... and you are off. It is how I, and many others I know got their start. Guide? You don't really need it. Use the mirror trick, or make a visual guide out of a pair of speed squares (or use a single speed square...) Practice makes perfect - it doesn't take long to get proficient...
And if you choose - the Makita is a great tool, I really enjoyed using mine (sold it off for decent $$ after several years of use).
you have that thing humming for sure, Tim. Nicely done and thanks for taking the time.
we shot a short demo video of the W. Ball machine this morning, but I'll have to upload it later.
x2 my $$ are on Tim in the Boss vs. Makita race thanks for the gear tip Tim, what a great idea sir
Brad, all parts are original and yes the MF is in pristine condition. It only took me 2 years to convice the antique guy that it didn't belong on his display shelf...
I think the electric drill/chisel combo is a good option too. Once too much machinery takes over the whole process, one should wonder why he/she is TF'in' in the first place (on nonpro level) IMO
there's a thin line between hobby and mental illness
i like that the cranks are offset and not inline from side to side. supposedly helps reduce the dead spot as you come around (similar tech theory on bicycle cranks)
Do you see any torque or flex in the body of the machine? It looks wonderful, and I have gears turning in my head now.
As these antique tools are traded back into service or collections I see a shortage in supply. I could see new ones manufactured by a machine shop. I have looked into it and there are many possibilities.
I've not seen one of these William Ball & Co boring machines. I like it! These definitely look better being used than collecting dust on someones shelf. Where did you find it Gabel? I think that's Gabel in the video, right?
Brad - We got the machine from jim at jimbodetools.com. He's a reputable, fair and trustworthy dealer.
Tim - There is very little flex now that we fixed the locking screw that keeps the base from sliding on it's track. It wasn't holding it still, so the neat feature of the back and forth adjustability was causing a bit of trouble until we sorted that out. My favorite feature on this machine is not the sliding base -- I really like the retraction mechanism -- very simple and durable and easy to engage/disengage. That's comparing it to our Boss machine which requires more physical motions to operate.
I see from your video that your Boss machine has a little slop in it where the head rides the rails.
We have 2 Bosses and one is pretty much unusable because there is so much slop. The other seems about like yours. On the sloppy one, the difference is the head -- the rails are the same distance apart but the grooves in the head are deeper, allowing more side to side wobble. Any ideas on how to tighten it up? I thought about somehow putting some shims in there, but how would one secure them. I'd like to get it in good working condition.
Gabel, I am just finishing lunch and will take a peek at it. First suspicion is to space the two side apart with a shim/washer at the top where the round section holds it together. But I have to look to see it this is correct. Swap heads and see if it is the head or the frame.
As long as the head stays on the frame I would not be concerned with it, unless it really fouls up the mortice. If holes wonder you can control the size of the mortice when you clean up the triangles. Just like if the timber was out of square and the mortice was square to the whole, you will see bore lands on one side of the mortice.
The wobble may just allow you to locate the feed screw to the layout line easier, I see you are doing that. I do to sometimes, other times I wing it.
Tim I have also wondered about the possibilities of building a machine from scratch using modern parts (McMaster Carr catalog, etc). I guess I'm just curious about whether you could improve upon the old designs enough to make it worthwhile.
There are things I love about each design, and things I don't like so much. It would be fun to combine my favorite features. It will probably remain a daydream because I am only mechanically inclined enough to repair/modify old machines, not design/engineer one from scratch. But I have met a few folks in the TF world who could do it no problem.
As far as I know, no boring machines are in production today. So you are probably right about supply eventually getting thin.
Good idea, Will. I was trying to overly complicate it by adding metal of some kind. I see you can get delrin in practically any thickness. I think I need around 1/32 on each side to tighten it up.
Mo, the three part gear acting as one piece, right above the 2006, serves three purposes, two gear ratios and the square/flat gear which meshes with the "ladder", visible also. Both chucks turn at the same time.
That machine has an original depth stop still in place, I had to make one.
Gabel, you can see the round pipe at the left of the picture, at the base of the machine, there are three of these. I had a dyslexic moment when I said shims. You may have to take material off these to bring the sides closer together.
Do you know if the rails are worn? Or the head? The rails don't see much wear down at the bottom, measure the difference top and bottom and compare. Is it side to side slop or front to back? Rust would contribute to the removal of metal, too. Is it rusty?
Would the Delrin go in the groves in the head or on the rails?
I wonder just how much wear would show on these machines? I can see the shafts wearing and they do. I have oil ports drilled in mine, I use various oils to lube the working parts, whatever is handy. I don't however lube the rails.
Another item deserving of attention is the two latches, one holds the head up and the other engages the ladder. I have adjusted the slotted screw just so, so that the mechanism swings freely and does not catch of the side, I had to tweak/bent one to make it work proper. I would not use lock tight to hold the screw in place, even the mild grade, but silicone would help hold the screw from working out.
I've got a Swan that is a bit shaky. I've been thinking about TIG welding up and aluminum rigid frame for the carriage. Would not be too difficult, and would eliminate the shaky adjustable wooden frame.
i was referring to the linear gear running up and down. one of our machines is missing that piece entirely.
Tim,
We've switched the head and the wear is in the head - the rails measure the same on both machines. I was thinking of putting the shims in the grooves in the head so it would work on either base.
That sounds right. I like the ladder. Dave Carlon has one that will kick the ladder out by reversing the handles after the carriage latches. I've seen a bunch of other Swans that won't do it. Saves a step.
Here is one of my machines which I have change a few parts on. I did this before I purchased the Boss. It turns slower than the slowest speed on the boss. Some day I will adapt another head with the gears reversed to speed the bit up for peg holes, or construct a whole new machine for such a purpose.
Here is a home made version, something along this line for peg holes. Excuse the shaky camera. You can hear one of our wind mills wisping in the back ground. I hesitate to decommission an older machine for readaptive use.
No Jim, she did not. Funny how she found the only pine timber to lean on, and it was an extra sticky one too. It is coming on to that time of the year when the sun hits new timber the sap really flows.
Tim, nice work on your machines. Projects like that take some work. You're the first person I've seen so far making or extensively modifying a boring machine. I just purchased a Boss boring machine head on ebay and should receive it in about a week. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170453636572&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT I'll either have to come across a frame for it or make my own.
great vids once again Tim...the Moonhill boring machine is awesome I especially like the use of "off the shelf" components, if something snaps it's easily replaceable...which is hardly the case with the antique machines. Now I know why you so confidently hammer down on yours
Brad, you got the heart and soul of a boring machine, the rest should be a pc of cake to fab up
there's a thin line between hobby and mental illness
Not sure I follow you there Jim, with "make the rack movable". Admittedly, I have not had any experience with a Boss. Do you mean make it movable like on my Snell? Movable, meaning it rotates to engage? I was just looking at some pics of a boss on the web. Not sure I follow you there Jim, with "make the rack movable". Admittedly, I have not had any experience with a Boss. Do you mean make it movable like on my Snell? Movable, meaning it rotates to engage? I was just looking at some pics of a boss on the web. Bosspics The pics called upper standard left and lower standard left, what do each of these levers do? I imagine one is to hold the head up -latch, when at the top, and the other maybe to engage the rack? Wish I had one to look at in person...I'll go back and find your Boss videos Jim and see if I can figure it out from that. .....OK, I just watched your video and you totally showed me what I wanted to know. Thanks Jim!!! Brad, now if you had a frame already sitting around, you'd tell me eh?
I would like to point out that the link "bosspics" which Brad just linked shows a boss machine with the upright section, possibility, mounted backwards. At least it is not the same as mine. The upright stand, which is mounted to the seat has the head out in front and the latches are on the left side(sitting on the machine). I wonder if someone had the ratchet/angle bolt out and reinstalled the whole unit backward? It should still work and may be the last person to use it was left handed?
Gabel, did you mention what the ratio was for your William Ball and Co. manchine? How many turns of the chuck for one turn of the handles? That would be a good machine to bring for show and tell at a conference or other guild event. Does it seem heavy compared to some of the other machines? With that solid steel square rack in the center I thought it might be a bit.
The ratio is pretty fast -- almost identical to the fast side of the boss. I can't remember exactly what it is at the moment, I'll check when I get to the yard and report back.
Yeah, I was just looking for pics for quick reference. You video showed it all though, Jim.
If you get a chance Gabel, that would be great. I want to make a little chart that shows the gear ratios of the various boring machines that we know of.
Thanks Gabel. FYI, for anyone who doesn't know, The best way to determine the ratio is to count the number of teeth. I just received my Boss gears and for the numerically low ratio (for hardwood), there a are 24 teeth on the chuck shaft gear, and 14 teeth on the handle shaft gear. So you would call this a 14:24 ratio, or to simplify it, 14/24=.58, so the ratio would be .58:1, for every 1 turn of the handles, the bit rotates .58 of a turn.
For the softwood side of the Boss, the ratio is 16:12, which equals 1.33:1 (rounding). For 1 turn of the handles, the bit rotates 1.33 times.
I guess if I want to make a chart, handle length should also be included, perpendicular distance from the center line of handle arm shaft to center line of the handle/knob pivot shaft.
On the two machines in the last video the ration is .625 on both, 10/16 or to reduce the fraction 5/8's...... if I was to switch the gears I would get a l.6:1, a little faster than the fast gear on the Boss. I am just thinking about pegs. I wonder what the grunt factor would be turning a 1-1/2" bit in white pine at that ratio?
The handle lengths are and interesting concept, I find the fixed handles to be very comfortable, much longer and the ergonomics is off.
Brad, what does the diameter of the gear contribute to the equation? Say a 4" gear with an accommodating correctly sized gear, to hit a ratio already known , either bigger or smaller?
There are a number of factors that go into gear design. In simplest terms for regular spur gears, you need to size the tooth to handle the loads it will see. Root stress, bending stress, contact ratio(how many teeth are in contact at once), etc. Using the input torque (from the handles) and the resistive torque from the wood, you translate that into the force that occurs at the point of contact on the tooth. You can then calculate the stresses to determine if the stress is within the yeild stess of the material with sufficient margin of safety(for the given ratio etc). Once you've found the suffecient tooth design, the ratio used will determine the diametral pitch and the overall diamter of the gear. So overall diamter, or the more commonly used pitch diameter, is more a function of the tooth design and ratio needed. I actually started out designing gears in my first job. It's been awhile, but I could pull out my books again if I needed to. I've been wondering if any of the boring machine gears are worth quoting a limited run? If a gear company could hob or shape some gears at a cost people would be willing to pay. Has anyone tried this? What gears would be first on the list to have done? I was just thinking...
The diametral Pitch radius would factor into the calculation of torques to forces and visa versa, and the caculation of stress on the tooth.
There are a few different terms when dealing with bevel straight gears, like on the boring machines, but the concepts are basically the same. Bevel gears allow you to change the direction of motion by 90 degrees per pair, but the drawbacks are that there are higher toques on the shafts for bevel gears, the mounting distances must be accurate so that the teeth mesh properly, and one wheel of such gear is designed to work with its complementary wheel and no other, without having to change the center distances/mounting distances.
I'm with you on designing and building a prototype new boring machine. I think that Tim has already overcome the gear supply problem using Toyota Tercal standard drive shaft parts and has even made up a new angle iron and flat bar prototype. The next hardest problem to overcome is obtaining new 2" and smaller drill bits.
I am not sure how this unit actually works but it is of interest, Schumpf High Speed Drive. It is expensive $5-600. It has three speeds. Set up a system with it as the transmission, the two final drive gears would not change.
A machine shop could make bits. With CNC technology is should not be a problem, we just have not asked in numbers. The cheap 1-1/2" bit I use is machined and it works great. It was mass produced somewhere, China probably.
One item I like on the Millers Falls machine is the round upright shafts. Even though these machine do not require exquisite machining and high technology would it be a bonus? I looked into bearings for the head, there is available a type of bearing which spirals up through the cylindric shaped bearing allowing the head to flex and not bind. I ruled these types of thing out because of longevity and simplicity. Crud will build up in the intricate parts. One of the reasons these machines are still useable is due to the simplicity of them. I would forgo this to sample the Schlumpf unit, though.
The Schlumpf is an interesting choice for internal gearing on a bike. I've looked at them for doing a 2spd with a chain and single cog on the back. I'm pretty sure they only offer 2 ratios, not 3 - so it gives you twice as many options as your current drive train - so a 9 cogged rear on a bike would yield 18 'speed' options. For a mortiser you'd have 1:1 and then lower or higher depending on what option you chose (unless you also somehow had gears right @ the bit spindle.
The Schlumpf works by hitting the center 'button' with your heel as you come round on your pedal stroke. They make a 'mountain' drive and a 'speed' drive (essentially one that works to lower your gearing (for touring) and another that would higher it for flat / road riding.
The issue I'd see adapting this to a boring machine would be running a short chain or developing a gear cluster that turned from perpendicular to horizontal to drive the bit. Not impossible - but a typical bicycle bottom bracket (which houses the unit) is 68 or 73mm wide - so you might have to make the spindles / axles that carry the arms (or cranks, in this case) longer. The assembly would have to sit in a properly machined and threaded shell.
Or a blank that would require fabricating / welding / brazing it to other components (maybe the internal frame that moved up and down...) here.
I see a short chain drive turning a cog on an axle that then is geared to turn a bit. You'd have to build a rigid stand for it, and work out the geometry such that with all the hardware it wasn't too tall or wide while sitting on a timber. Could be a cool project. I'm already envisioning how the drive system could work with an axle and gearing to change the direction on the bit. And then maybe have a ladder that the whole rig climbed to help pull it out of the bore hole. Machined aluminum maybe for the framework.
When I planned to cut a frame for a friend back in 2003-2004 I schemed up all sorts of bike related mortising machines and routers. Would love to have 2 setup - 1 for boring mortises, another with a 2" forstner type setup for roughing out housings... something I never investigated fully was how to get around the chain / interface part - but if Tim is gutting car parts and getting gears to work - it would seem like something that is possible...
I was more thinking about reproduction parts to refresh existing machines. Maybe improving the quality of the gears so taht they don't wear so quickly and break teeth. Given the quantities, I don't think it would be something to make money on, but to just be able to get the parts and keep these machines working. Availability of a new machine would be nice, but same problem as above. Limited run and expensive tooling to make it nice like the Boss or the MF. There is something to be said for simplicity as well. The more gear steps you have, the more your effeciency goes down too.
Well I put the Double Eagle to use this week. A fine machine from the good fellas around here.
Things I learned by boring cylinders:
Make sure your mortise has the proper length to width.
A corner chisel is a fine tool when using the boring machine. I don't have any corner chisels, but if I had some, I would have two. One that is 1/2" for the 1.5" mortise and two that is 3/4" for the two's.
Knots have to be recognized more importantly.
Fun tool, I like the chips it makes.
Used one of the spring loaded punches (?) from the big box store to guide the lead bit. Worked well.
A great machine (apple powered and all), takes longer than a Mafell, but sounds nice.
p.s. by the way, the ratio the maker made when it was produced in the 19th century was the right one. No need to alter on this end.
p.p.s Oh yea, all hail the slick!
Last edited by mo; 05/23/1006:08 AM. Reason: p.p.s
Re: Drill Guide/Stand
[Re: mo]
#2361505/23/1010:10 AM
The proper length to width, such as a 2" mortice should be even numbered in length, like 4, 6, 8, inches long. I take it that is what you mean? I like to do that with my joinery, but it does not necessarily have to be. When I use my 1-1/2" bit I leave a 1/4" or so of wood between the holes this is removed with the corner chisel, then the sides are slicked. I find if the holes are in contact with each other chips can bind in the inter-medium, a chip gets caught between the bore hole and the bit, making it more difficult to turn. This is not as much of a problem with my 2" original bits. On long mortices 12" - 24" and longer even shorter ones sometimes, I try to I try to bore as few holes as possible. I find a 1" between holes is the most I want to deal with usually 1/4"-1/2". Also on a brace mortice I do not bore the ends first, I start at the heal/butt end and work toward the the bevel. I find this will save a hole as well for you can knock a bevel on the remaining scrap.
I am doing these steps as experiments to shorten the process. I waffle back and forth on how I proceed through a mortice. I try not to get my self caught in a rut, I might miss a detail or short cut, so I mess around with patterns and such looking for a simpler process.
I do use a corner chisel to clean between holes if necessary and the ends as well. I believe the 3/4" is for the 1-1/2" mortice and the 1" is for the 2" mortice. I use just the 3/4" chisel, it will cut both easily. The 1" is too fat for the 1-1/2" mortice, it extends into the other corner. Jack Sobon does not use a corner chisel, he just drives the correct size normal chisel through both corners and with a prying action forces the crud into the mortice. Jack is a big boy, and I, not so big, I tend to lean toward removing a smaller portion with the corner chisel. On 2" mortices I drive each corner twice, I find it is less jarring on the body, all the heavy pounding. Kind of like handling boards I will go with a single board in stead of 2, more trips but I am not beat out, I am taking a comfortable load or chip for me.
Knots, you will look for better wood, which is what you should be doing anyway. A bonus for the hand cranked machines, it makes you work with the wood. I think that is why they are called "nots", not here, you don't bore.
If you find it takes longer than the Mafell, you need to crank the handles faster, or hide the extension cord.
) on our project and gotta admit I like the wooden framed machine. Which work for us, since Tammy likes her MF and we can double the output 
IMO
. The back and forth adjustment takes the cake IMO..
