Hey all,
I selected a "test" tree on my property for cutting. It is about a 100 year old Oak. I knew it would hang up so I attached a 100' long rope to the top of the tree. After cutting I pulled it down with my tractor. Landed just right. Had a nice "hinge" for the falling. Problem #1: The tree sheared right up the middle of trunk about 3 feet effectively making it too short for a post. I believe this occurred because of pulling it with the tractor creating a lot of compression on one side and tension on the other. My cutting notch needs to be > shaped next time instead of _\ which I think will relieve the compression pressure. Problem #2: I felt a lot of grief after cutting down the tree and found that I had to shut myself down emotionally in order to get it done. I don't have a solution for this problem except that we are renewing our search for salvage lumber. There is just something about Oak. I don't think I would have trouble cutting down pine or fir which grows like weeds around here...

Problem 2: might be better discussed in a different forum, but I'll put on my Carl Jung hat and say that the grief you feel is due to the fact that you have personified this tree, and when coupled with Problem #1 there is a sympathetic relationship between you and the tree described by "hurt". Perhaps you feel this way because the tree has no job in its current state; make use of it and you will feel better.

And/or plant an oak tree when you take one down. If you build right out of the one that was taken down, then the new sapling should be as big as the one you took down before your building goes back to the earth.

Or you could do rammed earth.

Why not Pine or Fir in the first place since you feelings are not as strong about them?

It seems your oak almost BARBER CHAIRED, one of the most dangerous felling conditions. Since you are WA, where the forestry industry is large, get training. Ask about "The Game of Logging" or try ag extension agents, state occupational safety adm, adult education services, etc. Logging is one of most risky industries in the nation. A day in the woods with a chainsaw can rapidly progress from an outing to an adventure to an ordeal. Also check out the Forestry Forum. Be safe.

Hi Paul;

Professional chain saw training in maine now involves a method of cutting where you make a notch and then plung your saw through the tree being sure to not to cut the hinge. Then, the last part you cut is the farthest point from the notched side. This, they say, is the safest method of cutting.

I do not know what this method is called. I looked quickly online but nothing came up. I thought there might be a video showing what I am talking about.

One of the advantages of this method is you will not get the middle of the log torn out, if that is what you mean by "the tree sheared up the middle".

I saw this demonstrated at the best fair in Maine,, the Common Ground Fair, if that helps you track down more information on this method of felling.

Felling a tree for lumber is like butchering an animal to eat. Everyone should experience it to appreciate what they have and understand what goes into making a 2x4 or hot dog.

Many woodworkers justify the murder of inocent trees in that they will "live" on for possibly hundreds of years as someone's material possession. Firewood does not add to global warming, it is a cycling of the carbon unlike reintroducing captured carbon from underground oil wells.

O.K., I am getting off my soapbox now.

Jim

When I was just a young pup, I had an ash tree barber chair on me, it could have taken my head off. A quick lesson, it was. I have never had one do it since. You had too much hinge left

Plunge cutting as Jim described works well, plunging the saw takes some practice and something I am not going to go into, find someone local to show you how it is done. I would even venture a video wouldn't do it justice. It is safe and allows you to insert wedges to keep the tree from pinching the bar, or back the skidder up to, and give the tree to give it a push, while you still have two points attached.

I would encourage you to keep at it and mix the species too. I know the feeling, I have shot a number of animals hunting and trapping. The hardest time I had to pull the trigger was on a goat we had, the first one we had for slaughter. Trees are not much different.

Paul, it is not all just drawing pictures and calculating, you have started from scratch, it isn't a cake mix where you just add an egg. Adding the egg does take you into the other forum Mo mentioned, studies have been done.

Tim

Jim, I'm pretty sure it's called "hinge and latch", with the latch being the last cut you mention that 'unlatches' the stem.

We just call it a bore cut around here. I use it on heavy head leaners. I don't use it as a rule, it's just part of the bag of tricks you need as a logger.

I'd like to first recommend that you find someone to give you some advice first hand, if you can. As for books, the best I can recommend is G.F. Beraneks "The Fundamentals of General Treework", available at www.atreestory.com.

I was taught that as a "bore cut". This is the OSHA logging site;
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/retreat_path/retreat_path.html

The directory to the slides is here;
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/logging/loggingpresentation/slides/index.html

Here is a video of the "bore cut":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZLBtFdmKKU&feature=related


Here is another video showing an interesting technique for directional felling, and possibly could be adapted into a new way to cut tenons?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ekka007#p/u/27/BLkgWFh9lDs

Thank you all for your informative and understanding replies. I will do more research on cutting. I have spent a lot of time in the woods bringing down trees and have never had this happen before (the barber chair). I belive it had to do with having to pull the tree over with my tractor since that is the only new variable in my experience. I cut towards the notch right up until the tree was starting to fall. At that point I always head for cover. In other words, I don't want to hang around and keep cutting further. It looks like the hinge was only about a half inch thick. I'll post a picture when I figure out how. It sure does not resemble a barber chair...As for the other, I have trouble not releasing trout that I catch too, but I can usually bring myself to knock it on the head and enjoy the bounty. I would use pine or fir if they were growing on my property. The oak woodlands in the NW are very limited and under duress which is part of my hesitation. I don't know about personifying. Doesn't that imply that the tree in inanimate to begin with? Or that it only has value if it is like a person? Well, I'll search for the other forum. I put out a bunch of want ads in the rural newspapers for abandoned timber frame barns yesterday and will be knocking on doors. Oh, I didn't understand the recipe/egg metaphor??? -paul

Betty Crocker cake mix would not sell. The house wife thought she was not doing her job. The doctors realized, through some study, that if the cake mix required mixing in an egg then the house wife would feel better about making the cake from a box, and they would be doing real work. In other words we are manipulated on many fronts. Hope I didn't go to far with that one.

Tim

Did the notch close while the tree was off the ground? If that happens it's a battle between the long fibers in the hinge, (pretty strong) and the splitting strength of the wood (not very strong). If that happened, a more open face notch that lets the tree hit the ground before closing would help.

Pre-loading a tree, either by pulling with a rope, or pushing with an excavator etc., creates a situation much like a heavy head leaner. That is when barber chairing is most likely to happen. Boring the back allows you to cut almost all the wood before tripping the tree by cutting the little bit of back cut remaining, from the outside.

Don! exactly what happened. I didn't preload the tree, just hooked up a rope in anticipation of it hangin' up halfway down after which I applied the load. Yes. I need a more open face notch. I've actually surveyed some of my prior stumps and realized that I simply forgot what I already knew... Tim, still confused! If adding the egg helped the housewife, then shouldn't adding the tree help me? We did get a mailing from a guy who sends a whole timber frame "kit" for 70K dollars, but I like to do things myself....Is that like the cake mix w/o the egg? Ok trying to attach a picture now.
[image]https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_oPh1A...xMGYx&hl=en[image]

I am thinking the $70K frame would be the cake mix and you only have to add the egg. The egg would be you finishing the frame after it is up. The modular home where the man/woman of the house would not lay a hand on it, would be like going to the pastry shop and picking up the cake. What you are doing is making the cake from scratch, possibly even growing the grain for the flour. I know I am really doing something after I put a frame up and finish it out.

The cake mix thing is real, it really happened that way. It is not just an analogy. I could find the google video if you want to see advertising for what it really is.

I wouldn't say the tree is wasted by the photo. Saw it out and use it for a smaller piece or maybe you can squeeze by with a little blemish on the timber, put it on a face which will get covered up.

Tim

I had a clause in my contract (when I cut and designed) - the clause was a 'greens fee' - for every stick in the frame the owner and myself purchased saplings of a compatible variety from the local ag extension. 150 sticks in the frame so we did 300+ saplings in a day back in 2005. 150 on the owner's property, 150 on my parents (as I didn't live in a place conducive to the planting). We invited friends to help and the owner's daughters (middle school age at the time) helped out.

The owner cut the first softwood one this year for a holiday tree, which went in his house, which also has reclaimed timber work I did as part of a farmhouse renovation (reclaimed). It was a nice way to close the circle - and the trees and the barn and interior work will give a long long time. The smaller is to the greater, as the greater is to the whole.


Mo - rammed earth?
What about the worms?

William James said something like, "horny hands reflect the greatest virtue." Yes. I prefer to do everything from scratch leaving all my family and friends baffled at how "difficult you make things for yourself". Yes. I can turn the post towards the wall or maybe it will work as a short queen post or something.

I haven't much luck with native plantings on my property. The climate is HARSH. I plant and plant and most die. Others in the hood have similar experiences, but continue planting to get the tax right-offs. It seems that the native ecosystem knows how to reseed itself the best. We have quite a tree farm growing that is all volunteer. A local researcher at OSU presented evidence that high input tree planting actually caused the forest to grow back slower than just letting it alone! (referring to industrial forestry) The Oaks grow is copses here. Each tree seems to be connected to a common root system. Former owners cut down whole copses which are now sending up shoots from the root system. I have a tenuous theory that the rare giant Oak is actually several smaller trees which merged at the trunk. Anyway, I try to keep a hands off approach as I don't think the science is really very solid in this area of forestry. If I see a sapling, I surround it with small stones which condense moisture and help the tree through our long hot summers (an old native american trick), but I don't know if I need to plant oaks. Last year was a HUGE acorn year many of which are now sprouting. It seems like the Oaks are takin' care of business. Ironically, with fire suppression, it looks like pine trees are the greatest threat to the oak forests. I have often wondered about doing a controlled burn on the property. Here is a picture of the copses: [image]https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_oPh1A...1Y2Qx&hl=en[image]
and one of the pine tree volunteers taking over the meadow:
[image]https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_oPh1A...5NzI2&hl=en[image]
Click on image to enlarge.

Mother nature has nothing better to do than to do what she does, for sure.

I was commenting on the emotional issues you raised, and what I tried and like with a particular client...