We looked into some tf apprenticeships, but couldn't swing it for time/money and other logistical reasons (travel,etc). To me wood joinery is obviously the purest coolest thing. However, other than the logistical problems, our wood is home harvested and not very big. We want to keep as much of the wood as possible for structural reasons. eg: using round posts instead of square and using metal fasteners. Plus we have several metal working friends just down the road who do beautiful and artistic metal smithing and other types of metal work, much of it using salvaged metal from the local abandoned RR's etc..

Hi Ken,
Yes, when I said "mortise & Tenon" I was speaking about all traditional wood Joinery. Also, I would agree that there will instances where metal fasteners may be better suited but for the most part Timber Framing should be consisted of traditional joinery. Of course this is just my opinion Ken.
This thread was going no where so I though it could use a spark.

Hi counselorpaul,
If I had the time and money I would love to take a course in Timber Framing. As it was I had to rely on books, looking at barns and just practicing with small projects to start with. Add to that a fantastic group of people here to help. Cheers guys!

Here is a spark for you. I heard the large particle collider is evil. Did you hear about the guy that came from the future to destroy it? I think it was a joke, but you never know.

There is the aspect of black smith shops and the work they need to go through for the fuel for the forge, that alone is a huge task. I for sure would not want to go back to the stone age for tools. I am happy with the level of technology I have settled into.

I am coming out, I hide metal in my frames! I feel better now.

Tim

Just great! Now everyone's going to come out now. Pretty soon we'll all be going to H.M.A (Hidden Metals Anonymous)meetings.

"Hi. My name is Thane and I use hidden screws."

Tehe

We use hidden screws to connect common purlins to rafters, and joists to girts. It weakens the carrying timber a lot less to just do a housing instead of a dovetail. Since it looks identical from the inside, it just makes sense. CB.

From what I can tell, to use the Timberlinx, you still need to have some skills. Layout, accurate cutting of timbers and housings, and really good drilling techniques. Add to that the raw cost of materials, and I think looking into learning to cut joints may not be as uneconomical as one might suspect.

"I really like where that discussion could go - we could have its own thread for it (we have, sort of) - and something I've oft debated with 'traditional' woodworkers (ones who can sometimes border on luddites (in a good way) - is the question of is the Japanese plane a 'truer' simple man's tool over the western style plane?"

Everytime I see a comment like this I feel compelled to say something (and usually I don't). I'm not clear on whether you are aware of this or not Mike, but, in regards to the Luddites, they were not anti-technology or anti-modern. They were anti-factory. They fought against the loss of a traditional craft livelihood, the de-skilling of their trade and its replacement by low paid unskilled factory labor, often women and children, working in appalling conditions.

Those timber framers who have an affinity for traditional carpentry, though they may employ circular saws, lasers and the like, and do not make it a habit to smash equipment at the local Hundegger facility, share much sentiment with the Luddites I suspect, in terms of wanting to preserve a craft and work tradition.

The Luddites lost their battle against industrialism, and now that struggle, whether one agrees with smashing looms or not, is often simplistically characterized as being akin to tilting at windmills. There was a time where it was an open question whether society would/could/should entirely re-orient itself around industrial concerns and interests, but that is so far in the past most today cannot conceive of another reality than the heavily industrialized society we inhabit today.

The looms the Luddites smashed, I might add, were specifically the sort of looms that cheapened the work and allowed the unskilled to produce. Other types of looms which required a skilled operator were not smashed or burned, as these sort of looms were the same as those found in the Luddites own home shops.

Not to condone their actions, but the picture was a good deal more complex than the simple equation of Luddite = 'knuckle-dragging technophobe' commonly trotted out (and I'm not saying that was necessarily your intimation Mike).

There's nothing simple about a Japanese plane, BTW, other than its minimum of components. You're right, that is perhaps best made into another thread.

Yes, Chris, you are correct.

There is nothing simple about a plane - western or eastern, and 'luddite' has become a stereotype twisted from its original meaning.

I should have been more clear that I was referring to specific discussions over beers with a self proclaimed 'luddite' traditional woodworker - the stereotypical definition - and we batted around the talk of the western vs. eastern style plane, milling your own timber (board stock), mechanization, etc. and where lines are crossed or gray areas are waded into. It was a great mental exercise - we crossed into talk of the shift to fuel injection and ingnition computers in cars, frames too big to raise by hand, air drying vs. kiln drying, etc. etc. etc. All good.

Specifically on planes was the simplicity in design of the Japanese style wooden bodied plane vs. the complicated western style (think iconic image of a metal bodied plane with wooden handle) - and what it takes to produce and use such a tool, embodied energy, complicated machinery, technology, infrastructure, and the market and economies to support it, etc.



I did not intend to use simple as disparaging way to describe the plane. Many things, when reduced to their essence are simple and beautiful. Which is what I intended, but did not state clearly.

And when it comes to certain things, I drag my knuckles too, in a luddite technophobe sort of way - like microwave ovens, television, 'entertainment', car culture, etc. etc. etc.

Just came across this thread and have been on a job all week using a bunch of Timberlinx so I thought I'd chime in. I've never been a huge fan of these as I find them finicky and a bit expensive. However, here in earthquake land where everything is engineered to within a MM of it's life, they are used frequently in certain camps. Some engineers insist on a metal connection; these offer a tidy way to get a nice tight joint with predictable values. They are fussy to drill for and there are tricks, but once over the learning curve, it goes relatively quickly. Still more expensive than M&T IMHO.