What is your opinion on being certified to work on older housed where, in the past, lead paint was used? I was in the local building supply house yesterday and picked up information on classes put on by the supply house. There is a cost involved, two different fees totaling $400.00, and your time involved in attending the class.

Wondering if anyone has obtained the certification and what it says you need to do to work safely with lead paint? What is involved, special tools, equipment, processes taken, additional record keeping, red tape and more? What happens if you do not comply? Fines, jail time?

From since the beginning of lead paint to 1978 when I assume it was banned, what health problems have been found in the people living and working on these homes? Who is responsible for these health issues caused by bad paint? What will come of all the other products used in the building industry, how dangerous are they and will we at some point in our future be required to be certified to work with the multitude of plausible problem products incorporated into our homes?

This from the Timber frame Business Council:

National Lumber & Building Dealers Association Asks For Help To Delay EPA Lead Rule
NLBMDA and others urge the U.S. Senate to Help Delay EPA Lead Rule The National Lumber and Building Material Dealers Association, along with other trade associations and businesses, sent a letter to Sens. Bingaman and Murkowski of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee as well as to Sens. Boxer and Inhofe of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, urging them to contact the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) to delay the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Lead: Renovation, Repair and Painting (LRRP) rule.

Starting on April 22, 2010, renovation work that disturbs more than six square feet on the interior of a home built before 1978 must follow new Lead Safe Work Practices (LSWP) supervised by an EPA certified renovator and performed by an EPA certified renovation firm, as outlined in 40 CFR § 745.85.

Currently, EPA has 135 accredited trainers and 13,669 certified renovators nationwide, although its own compliance-needs estimates indicate that it needs at least 200,000 or more certified renovators. Obviously, these numbers are far too insufficient for the millions of renovations carried out annually, even without a substantial retrofit incentive program like HOME STAR. With the April 22, 2010 deadline nearing, it is clear that EPA cannot ensure enough certified renovators will be available for compliance with the LRRP.

If this is something you'd like to take action (one way or the other) contact your Senator through the NLBMDA website by clicking here.

"Starting on April 22, 2010, renovation work that disturbs more than six square feet on the interior of a home built before 1978 must follow new Lead Safe Work Practices (LSWP) supervised by an EPA certified renovator and performed by an EPA certified renovation firm, as outlined in 40 CFR § 745.85."

You must be kidding. I do not find myself surprised though. I can see it now: "Yes I need a quote handyman to replace this sheetrock." Handyman says, "Well sir, I can have your work done in about 3 hours at $40 dollars per hour, and lets see about $80 dollars in materials, that'll put the cost at about $200. Oh, I almost forgot we have to get some certified supervision. So just multiply that figure X3."

> than 6 ft^2 = EPA Certified renovation firm. This is ludicrous.

"Currently, EPA has 135 accredited trainers and 13,669 certified renovators nationwide, although its own compliance-needs estimates indicate that it needs at least 200,000 or more certified renovators"

So does this mean that a waiting list will come to fruition that is longer than the list for a Masters badge?

Usurp, Usurp, Usurp.

I was also wondering what will happen if a building is demolished? Will the neighbors be asked to vacate their home for some hours while the dust settles? Then what about clean up?

I want details on what the process will be? I would almost spend the initial $95.00 and go through the course just for the education. But there is a chance this will stall out for now. I also and cash short now and don't want to hand $ out for that at this time.

I think it is a shame to throw old windows in the trash, they are still viable. The lead issue may add more cost to the process. I really liked Rob Hadden's approach to windows, using older stock, you can still work on them with out a hassle.

Tim

Tim

I have a builder / timber framer / carpenter friend here in VT who does a fair clip of remodeling and energy audit / remediation / carpentry - 70% of what he works on is pre 1970. He's a practical VT guy (still driving an ancient Toyota pickup to jobsites that he traded for) - built his own TF house for his wife and family on a really tight budget - with his own 2 hands during off work hours. The more he gets into working on remodeling and doing additions to older homes and buildings - the more he deals with this - and he is actually excited about shelling out about $1k for the course, certification, and some specialized equipment. He's already doing the bulk of the recomendations - but really feels like it is $$ well spent.


And with a 2 YO and having now toured about 10 older homes in BTV (lokking for a new house in town) - I'm terrified a bit of having to deal with the lead paint (and sometimes asbestos) issues - as we'll need to move in while I do the work.

Yes - it can feel like the guvmint is legislating 1 more thing in our lives - buit I look at it as being 1 step closer to mandatory well crafted housing - similar to 'health insurance reform'. Its coming. Just wait.

Check out the last line of this link.

http://www.mpbn.net/Home/tabid/36/ctl/ViewItem/mid/3478/ItemId/11550/Default.aspx

I don't mind attending a course, I do mind the cost involved. Fear is a poor way to achieve an end. I imagine they would work with an individual on the $37, 500/day fine for not complying. That would put me out of business on the first day.

I am all for shining a light on an area which needs attention. I see something wrong with a society which needs to be mandated into compliance. I do not blame the agencies, it is the fault of the people for allowing it to go this far. We as a people have become careless, and therefore need to be guided through life. We need to take more responsibility, make a full stop at the stop sign, because it is the right thing to do.

A mandatory well crafted house? Numerous times I see posts questioning what should I use to tread a wooden surface, to keep it from drying to quickly, to enhance it color, or stabilize it, to keep the bugs out, maybe I need to sand it to make it pretty which forces one into a finish of endless possibilities. Paint is just scratching the surface of how we are cared for. Within the process of finding the adornment one would wish to use to enhance their wood work I would suggest they consider if it it totally necessary, then choose the least offensive product. By doing this it will ensure work in the future will be done safer and easier. There is nothing worse than picking the paint and filler out of the screw head to remove an exterior piece of trim. A well crafted house, in my opinion, would not be painted, a durable species of wood with big fat headed stainless screws is what I would mandate, if I were Sovereign King.

Tim

Tim - I'm not sure the lead paint issue was primarily due to carelessness - maybe more to the 'free market' system in place and the products available at the time. So many homes - so much paint - many sold by reputable builders and contractors - maybe not all by reputable mega companies - but the reality is that lead can be a serious health hazard for growing kids. Yes, it is fear based - and knowledge is power in this case. Overblown? Maybe... but the funny thing is that these things show up so much later than when they were initially done...


The problem is lifetime of a home / lifetime of a child / vs. short term interests of a home owner - or simple lack of knowledge by a tenant, owner, or contractor making a choice. A homeowner may simply 'risk it' and go for it - getting dust all over the place that a visitor or families child might inhale, or eat (paint chips) - or they may certify in a property disclosure that they removed the lead... leaving the problem for someone to inherit later on down the life of the home or building. At least requiring a trained contractor to do the work starts to form a chain of custody so future owners (10-20-60) years down the road can see what efforts / chemicals / processes have been made to their investment - and what sins of the previous owner's / builders / etc. they will inherit.

We've gone down the road of a chemical filled world - we are now starting to deal with the consequences of it - lead based paints, the killing off of lakes (Champlain here in VT) because of fertilizer run off, etc. etc.



And I like the start of your mandate...


'Do no harm.'
is way better than
'Do the least harm.' (we aren't close to this now)
or
'Regulate how many people you can poison and kill (slowly) before the pitchforks come out...' - which is sort of where we are now.

To paraphrase a speech I heard by the architect William McDonough - "If a man kills another man we call it murder, if a corporation kills or injures hundreds or thousands of men and women over their lifetime - (slowly, because we regulate how much poison you can pump into the air, the water, the ground, and our products) - we call it progress, the market, and the cost of doing business..."

I'm sure at one time lead based paint was seen as the next great thing in home improvement.

I'm with you on that Mike. I think we have many other choices but are directed toward only a small portion of them through advertising.

I wonder what the next "lead paint" will be, the next problem we have trustingly used.

I don't see that it would be a problem to disassemble old barns with lead painted trim and such, as they are not dwellings. Does anyone else read this the same way. Buildings where we reside are the main concerns.

Tim

Hi everyone tonight:

welcome to the modern mess--Hum--lead--well up till the 80s lead was thrown around literally at random--it was a big part of our- lives--gas, sprays, yes lead paint, I might put it bluntly cheap paint that everyone could afford to buy, we used to call it Beamish store paint, everything was painted with it, even the baby carriages, playpens, wood trim, floors, roofs, barns.

Lead was in everything even plaster, fly spray, you name it!.

I worked for many years on restoration projects, and new construction that used original mixtures containig lead, sometimes in the pure form, one project was rebuilding a Bateaux that used lead calulking between the hull sheating.

No one even dreamed that lead was such a hazard but now it is too late, and that goes for many other hazardous chemicals asbestos is anotherone, pentanol, 24d weed spray, what will we find out about plastic I expect nothing good it is coming

When we stop to think about it what chemical is really safe, I was told by a paint manufacturer that latex paint is perfectly safe, I asked him if he would drink it -- he said no that it was not safeto drink, then I said it is not safe and he said I guess you are right

NH

In this link over, 200 years ago Dr B. Franklin seemed to suspect that lead was the culprit in a few ailments. Of all the safety issues we deal with I have always been most concerned about what we breathe/absorb and the long term affects. There is no safe level of lead exposure. The Franklin Expidition would attest to that if any had survived their canned goods.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=YB0bPpCC...p;q&f=false

I learned of this new law a few months ago and am signed up to take the training for $195 and the $300 permit that lasts five years. I was not aware of this coming and am upset about the unexpected expense of the training and permit. I am an old house nut so I am also worried about the long-term consequences of making restorations even more expensive. Should only the super-rich be able to reststore old houses?

Some of the requirements are to seal off the work area and use booties or a tacky mat to keep from tracking lead dust around on your shoes. If you vacuume the dust you must use a HEPA filter. If you do not clean out the vacuume and trash the filter at the jobsite and transport the vacuume anywhere else you are transporting hazardous materials which requires a permit to be legal. I do not know how to dispose of the filter unless you already have a roll-off container on the job.

Pieces of wood covered with lead paint need to be wraped in plastic sheeting and sealed with tape. Then they can be put in a dumpster as normal demolition debris. However, I live in a town where we still have a land fill and our wood is ground up and spread in layers in the land-fill. This wood cannot have plastics like bituthane or polyethelene on it so I have asked the dump guy what to do. He did not know yet but, I may have to take the poly off of the wood at the dump!

The training is definitely a racket. I just took a hunter safety course with 12 hours of class time over four evenings and there were numerous handouts including two books. This class cost me $8. This is the difference between a subject that is grass-roots, volunteer-instructed and suppported by several organizations and governments, and the lead paint training which is top-down, big-business. If there are 25 people in class that is a gross income of $4,875 per class. I wonder if the instructor gets more than $350 of that?

I have heard there are only five inspectors in New England so enforcement will be more of a "drop a dime" program where the inspectors rely on people (competitors, disgruntled employees, etc. ) to identify jobs to inspect. The real issue would be if you poisoned a child with lead paint dust. The law would clearly be against you.

Clearly there are not enough certified contractors. There is only one other person in my town who has been certified so far.

How high can our standards go?
Jim

By the way, the Romans knew lead was poisonous and used it for water pipes!