Hi all!

I'm new here and loving it!

I can handle an inspector requiring an engineer's stamp for the plans. No biggy, but what about the grading of the timbers? I found a great local mill with all the wood I need at a great price. All wood is sound and looks good. Can some people please share their experiences with building inspectors on the issue of ungraded timbers?

Are they going to require the material to be graded? If so, how can I get that done?

Thank you for any info!

-Sam

Here is a link to a document about grading timbers: http://www.nelma.org/files/File/grb%206(1).pdf

Depending on your area, you need to contact the local grading agency, such as NELMA or whatever is in your area.

Most agencies have traveling graders who can come out to the sawmill yard and grade the stock there for you.
You will have to pay the graders fee, usually a one day fee, for him to come out and do the job. And they should give you a document that says they did the job.

If you are in NY there is another method of doing this.

Where are you located?

well you need to keep in mind an engineered plan means nothing unless the timbers have the ability to handle the loads of the design! hence the timber grader. your engineer may be willing to sign off on the timbers as well based upon a visual inspection of them.

ask your sawyer or call other sawyers for a timber grader contact to come out for a half day and do it for you.

In my area, the inspectors are allowing me to use ungraded timber so long as it is engineered assuming the "lowest grade". See what your building department will let you get away with.

I have a situation where an antique hand hewn post (red oak) was approved by a licensed engineer here in CT and after it was installed and we had our framing inspection, the building inspector would not accept it and says "it needs to be a graded timber". I've contacted NELMA and they will not grade antique timbers. They forwarded me to Timber Products Inspections, a company hq'd in GA. The nearest guy they have is out of Philedelphia and they charge a minimum of 4 hours @ $95/hr plus travel. Does anyone have any advice on how to resolve this issue another way?

In many states the word of the engineer is readily accepted by code officials.

Your best move is to have the two of them speak directly.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Had them speak directly a few days ago. Building Inspector is hanging his hat on the statute in the building codes that says each piece of stuctural framing lumber ultimately needs to be graded, regardless of what the licensed engineer is willing to take for responsibility. My hands are tied to the point where I've had to work with the engineer to come up with a solution that requires removal of the reclaimed timber and replace it with a new one and adding a Simpson connector. Customer is not happy! Thanks for the input.

This is terrible.

Maybe it could become an article for our magazine at least; a cautionary tale.

At Our shop ( Cabin Creek Timber Frames) we have a site license from timber products inspections to grade timbers. They came out and trained all the employees to grade timbers. Then they come out once a month and grade our grading. We must pass with a minimum of 95% correct to continue the site license. In return we get the TPI grade stamps for our shop and we can either stamp the timbers as graded or issue letters to building officials that the timbers have been graded by TPI. While this may raise an issue of conflict of interest with some. I feel that with us grading the timbers it makes us look at each stick more closely and in return for the extra work ( 5 minutes each stick) we put out a product that not only looks good but is structurally sound.

Fineline - What sort of changes clause do you have in the contract? It seems to me you have demonstrated due diligence, and that this development was not predictable, and should reasonably be able to negotiate a change order.

It would also seem that in the end, inspection will be far less costly, monetarily, schedule and aggravation wise.

I can vouch for TPI, they stepped in for us once when disputes over grade became heated and another grading agency bowed out, mid-situation, just to avoid the controversy. I also know of no other grading agency which will grade in-situ, and both historic existing framing, and "notched" timber.

KBLanier,
Can you share how much it costs to maintain your shop's certification?

I can also vouch for TP Inspections, I've taken their grader training course in GA. Lots of good info from knowledgeable folks.

One of my area inspectors has allowed an engineer to grade timbers, this was discussed in advance. Actually that discussion has evolved over about a decade during which time I trained, complained and educated. This was the solution we are both as close to ok with as we're going to get. Another will allow ungraded, another requires grading by an accredited agency. I'm going to disagree Will. It is predictable and due diligence to know the code and to assume the letter of the law will be enforced. Ask in advance if they will allow something less. It sucks and you have my sympathies, but there it is. If there is a sharing of the bill it would be with the engineer, it sounds as though he "assumed" as well.

Several New England states have native lumber laws which allow self grading for residential. The time is coming where timbers will have to be graded before and after notching, those wheels are in motion.

I don't pay the bills so I don't have the numbers off the top of my head. I do know that there is a minimum base charge and the rest is based on volume reported. Basically the more you play the more you pay. I'll check with the book keeper and get that information and post it.

Thanks, Kevin

Looking forward to understanding this system better.

Sorry for the delay. The price is 1 cent a board foot or $200 whichever is greater billed monthly. I don't think we have ever exceeded 20,000 bdft in a month so we pay the minimum of $200.