I really like the Stanley sharptooth saws, but they do tend to bind a little in big fresh pine cuts. I hit a nail with my better saw today, so I got out a new one. Didn't have any set. Cut good for a little bit, but would bind pretty fast. I rummaged around here just now and found an old Disston saw set. I don't know how much set I put in, but it is noticeable now. I only had an old pine 6x6 here, which was outside and wet. It cut straight, and no sign of binding at all. We'll see tomorrow when I get to work and have some fresh white pine to try it on. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

Hi Dave,

I have manually set Stanley Jet Cut / Sharptooth saws by hand using nothing more than a set of pincer type pliers. This does ease the problem of binding in wider / deeper cuts largely because the kerf width has been increased however the effort to make the cut will increase and the accuracy of the cut will decrease.

You could try out using a wall board (gyproc) saw like the Stanley Fat Max which is exactly the same as a jet cut / sharptooth except every 8th tooth is omitted and instead a gullet provided. These saws are not best used to start the cut but once underway it will keep the kerf clearer and hence less binding.

When cutting wet woods above 8" it would be better shifting to a 3 foot peg tooth log saw e.g. as made by Garlick & Son. Check out :-

3 foot log saw

This has the added advantage of having an additional handle that can be set on top of the blade at either end and so can be used either as a one man or two man push / pull saw.

Regards

Ken Hume

This tooth style is designed to be pulled. Stanley has to use a slightly fatter bodied saw to allow it to be pushed, and even then the longer version will buckle under bigger wood. I have started quite a collection of sharpsaws since the geometrical workshop. I can almost imagine the body of the saw buckling within the kerf of a larger timber and adding to the resistance and contributing to the wandering along with the lack of ability of the saw to clear the chips.

I set one once, if I recall it helped a bit but I really like my Docking Saw for larger timber and I can keep the whole saw tuned whereas the Stanley Sharpsaw is not possible with the hardened teeth. I find usually the death of the Sharpsaw is hitting foreign objects and next is use over time and finally pushing it through tough wood will diminish the set quickly, what little set it has, this is especially the case if the teeth are not hardened. Also forcing a saw beyond its designed speed of cutting will take the set away, let the saw do the work. I don't even buy the non hardened toothed version any more.

I do like the Sharpsaw, it gets used where it fits. I have always wanted to try a saw such as that linked by Ken.

One way to reduce the amount of sawing is the French Snap. I had fun this past weekend demonstrating 4 successful cuts, at the local Margaretta Day festival, the line stayed on the piece intended with no additional tearing of fibers.

Tim

This is an excellent discussion, gents.

With a couple of images added, it could form the basis of a fine article in Timber Framing.

Are you game?

Hi Joel,

I will take some photos of the 3ft two handed saw in action tomorrow during our woodland hewathon.

Regards

Ken Hume

I used the saw today. No binding at all, but not very accurate. I'll see if I can adjust the setter down a tad. I don't know where the set went to originally, as this saw did not cut right from the store. I don't know how many chances I'll get with those hardened teeth. They seem to bending close to the body, where it is not induction hardened. Joel, I'll get some close-up shots of the different amounts of set. I'm going to get another new saw and will do some comparisons. I also have a big one man saw around here somewhere, about 3' or so. I'll have to learn how to sharpen it. I have all the tools to do it as well, a couple of vises, a saw jointer, saw sets and files.

I went out and found that big saw. Might actually be a two man, as it's got a helper handle on one end, but I think it could be used by one person no problem. Cuts a fat kerf, over an eighth-inch.

I sharpened that big saw. Cut poorly on a dry 2x6. In studying Leonard Lee's book on sharpening, I think that the raker teeth are set for green wood, as they are much lower than the side-cutting teeth. That would explain the poor cut in dry wood. I'll experiment some more tomorrow. I may have to joint the tops of the side-cutters so that the rakers can do their job. Apparently, I will have to tune the saw to the type of wood I'm going to cut, i.e. green or dry wood, and possibly even hard or soft woods. I may never really need this saw, but it looks like it will be a great adventure to learn how to fully realize it's potential.

Dave, I use Lee's method for sharpening my hand saws. I use a 30 degree angle on the file in both directions (if that makes sense). I have a tendency to over set, at which time I take a light swipe with a stone on the outside of the teeth to shine them and take some set out, or if one side is set more than another. I find this will fine tune the set to what works. You might try this on the over set saw you created, if the stone will cut the hardened teeth? A warning, not your nice water stones, a cheap oil stone with two grits will do just fine.

Tim

Dave,

Get a copy of the Crosscut Saw Manual on the proper way to sharpen that beast....it is available for download form several locations on the net.

B

Thanks, I will look for it.

I used the big crosscut a little yesterday, it worked well for cutting big timbers. I think with a little practice, I'll be able to cut to the line with it. Many of the big shoulder cuts on the barn I'm working on show that a fine cut saw started the cut, and a much coarser saw finished it. Sometimes, there was some paring going on. I guess if you err to the waste side, you're safe.

Hi Dave,

Your "evidence based" observation is the very kind of confirmation that we need to hear about regarding past practice.

I have found it very difficult to get a large 3 ft peg saw started and have resorted to making an introductory cut using a stanley Jet saw which seems to match your experience.

Regards

Ken Hume

I've had good luck clamping a square edged piece of timber at least 3" thick right on the line and using that as a fence to help start the large saw (one or two man). Of course this only works if your cut line is square as well. otherwise, you'd need to a block with an edge at the appropriate angle to extend the cutline up into space.

The kerf on the Stanley handsaw is about half of the big saw, which means the big saw tends to want to jump around a bit. I'm wondering if, on those old timbers, they kerfed in with the small saw, then chiseled out to the line to give the big saw something to ride against. I'll have to take a look. Some of those shoulders on the anchorbeam tenons are over 20" long, a real pain with a short saw in fresh pine.

At the geometric design workshop, I saw some people cutting to the line with a two man crosscut, but I don't know what method was being used to start the saw. I do recall the cuts came out to the line. Gabel or Tim, or anyone else there, do you remember the process for using that saw?

I'll be playing with the tuning of this big saw over time. I want to find or make a raker gauge and a spider gauge for measuring the set. I think I'd also like to stone the backs of the teeth like Tim mentioned. The saw was originally black, it was rusty so I cleaned it up with a flap wheel on the angle grinder. The teeth aren't pitted, but the saw is still a little rough.

I did not get a chance to see the big cross cut saw in action up close, I was chopping the same cut on another piece at that time. I remember I had a flash of panic at one point while chopping, I almost split one of the little corbels, I checked myself just in time.

I wonder if you clamped or screwed a scrap over the timber and started the saw in that piece, got the teeth into the kerf and just kept going. draw the lines needed, it could be a bit choppy to start and on or off the starting line but with the kerf started by the time you get to the real line you are on track. But it is extra steps. Similar to what Gabel mentioned, you could use to pieces one for each side of the cut with a set of quick clamps it may go fast.

Ever see big timber chopped at the shoulder?

Tim

I haven't noticed axe marks to the shoulder, just chisel marks. Most of the shoulders on this barn are sawn. They are scribed with diminished haunch.

Dave
As noted there is a few resources available to show how to sharpen the big crosscuts. The "one man saws" I have are capable of taking a handle on the other end..
The dry wood will cut harder as the fibers tend to break off as opposed to green or wet tends to shear. The rakers actually are supposed to be shorter than the cutters, and they should be tapped over to get more of an angle...think chisel cutting angle. As with all saws you can set it up for hard, soft or both...or buy another saw so you can have a hard and softwood saw.
Come on up to Taylor Mill in Derry with the saw and I will see if I can help you with it. Saturday the 24 is a cutting day, but at the rate the water is dropping...maybe not.

Bob

Bob

Hi Bob et Al,

I can recommend "Saws and Sawmills for planters and growers" by John Morris MBE. This book was first published by Cranfield Press in 1991. I have John's contact email address for anyone encountering difficulty in buying a copy of this book as he sold me my copy directly from his own private stock.

This book gives full instruction on how to sharpen and set all types of large rip and cross cut saws that employ all the various classic tooth types.

Send me a PM if you need any further help.

Regards

Ken Hume

Disston No.32