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Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) #24332 08/31/10 08:49 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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True, but a 31 knotted rope would be unwieldy, not?

Here are some Medieval measurements from various regions:
English:
Digit: 3/4"
barleycorn, about 1/3", originally based on the length of a grain of barley
ynch, or inch: 3 barleycorn
nail: 3 digits
palm: 3 inches
hand: 4 inches
span (width of outstrentched hand from tip of thumb to tip of little finger): 3 palms
foot: originally 13 inches, shortened to 12 after 1066 to base it on the Roman foot.
cubit: 18 inches
ell: 20 nails or 45 inches
yard (after 1066): 3 feet
fathom (distance from one fingertip to the other on outstretched arms): 6 feet
rod: uncertain original length, defined as 16 1/2 feet after 1066

French:

pied: 12 pounce
pounce: 12 ligne
ligne: about 2.2558 mm

German:

Rute: varied, 0, 12, 14, 15, 18 or 20 feet
Klafter: Fathom, usually 6 feet, although in can range to as high as 3 meters in Switzerland
Elle: Distance between elbow and finger tip. In the North often 2 feet, In Prussia 17 / 8 feet, in the South often 2 1/2 feet.
Fuss: foot, varied by region
Zoll: inch, 1/12 of a foot, sometimes 1/10th of a foot.
Linie: 1/12 or 1/10 of a foot

Norwegian:

alen: Forearm, varies locally
fot: foot, 1/2 alen
kvarter: quarter, 1/4 alen
tomme: thumb, inch. 1/12 foot
linje: line, 1/12 tomme
steinkast: stone's throw. approximate measure, perhaps 25 favner
stang: rod, 5 alen
skrupel: 1/12 linje



Last edited by D L Bahler; 08/31/10 08:49 PM.

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Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) [Re: D L Bahler] #24333 09/01/10 02:49 AM
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Back to Egypt, the following image link shows a surveying party at work, note the man holding a triangle, what do you think is the ratio of the sides?

http://mathcs.slu.edu/history-of-math/images/history/3/32/Menna-rope-right.jpg

Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) #24338 09/02/10 02:22 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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I don't know...

On another subject however,

So far we have only looked at applying geometry to a small piece of paper. That's good for making plans and so forth, but these methods are not practical or even very accurate should you wish to lay out a full sized building.

So how do we do this?

More importantly, how did they do this 500, 1000, or even 2000 years ago.

How did the Egyptians do this to create things as accurate as the pyramids?

How did the Romans do this to create their great works, and to make their system of roads?

To transfer the geometry of the paper to reality, we need a number of things.

We need some way of laying out a straight line over a very long distance, some sort of surveying device.

We need a way to make things plumb. Plumb lines and plumb bobs do the trick here.

We need a way to make things level. And that's the tricky part. Once again, the plumb line can be our friend.

For the first task, laying out long straight lines, there is an ancient device that the Romans called the groma
The groma consists of a long pole driven into the ground, on the top of which two beams crossing each other at right angles (making a + shape) are mounted offset from the beam on a swiveling arm. Under the center of the + there is a plumb line to be lined up with a datum point. Each of the four arms has a plumb line as well. The whole assembly looks like this:


to establish a straight line, one man sights down 3 of the plumb lines (the North-South lines and the center line) while another marks off stakes according to the directions of the surveyor. And so incredibility accurate lines can be made. In addition, the groma allows us to make a line at a right angle to the first line using the east-west points.

For the second need, a plumb line will tell us the perfect vertical, however we will need a way of applying this vertical to a post, for example. We cannot simply place the plumb line against the side of the post and expect an accurate reading. Instead, we mount the plumb line to a board with a straight line marked parallel to its edges, and use it to set the post to plumb.

So how about level?
The level as we have it today is the result of millenia of development. The simplest level is a long piece of wood with a chanel cut into its center that is filled with water. This is not the most accurate method, but works for approximations. It can be accurate on a large scale, level foundations can be established by filling the foundation ditch with water and marking the water line to use as a reference point.

[img]

A better method for smaller things is to use the plumb bob again. To do this, we exploit the nature of the isosceles triangle. A plumb line is attached at the point of an isosceles triangle, and when the line lines up with the center of the bottom side then the bottom side of the triangle is level. This might be placed against a level line on a timber, for example.



Some variations of the plumb level

what would appear to be a French variation of an ancient Roman leveling device.

So with these tools we can create straight lines to create our building plan, and then we can erect our frames true and square.

The groma can be used in conjunction with a rope, stakes, or other methods of establishing the straight line. when marking off distances with a large compass or trammel it can be used to ensure you stay in line. For the first line of a structure it is unnecessary, but from then on its use makes the whole task much easier. It eliminates the need to do extensive geometric operations to establish right angle and parallel lines.

The groma is believed to have been invented by the Egyptians, along with the plumb line, plumb level, water level, measuring rope, and other such tools. It survived in various forms for thousands of years.

The plumb bob was the ultimate tool of the ancient builder and surveyor. The Egyptians discovered ways to use the plumb line in about every operation from establishing a level surface to making straight lines and complex angles. The plumb line is a reference point that can always be trusted to be exactly true. When combined with the geometry of triangles, the plumb line can be used to establish a wide variety of angles, creating the first protractor. A graduated disk with two sight points attached to the top of a groma can be used to find angles off of the straight or perpendicular lines as well.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) #24339 09/02/10 02:39 AM
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mo Offline
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I agree, Plumb and level. 2 axis at any location, you can build most anything. Until it comes the time to build it.

Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) [Re: mo] #24344 09/02/10 03:01 PM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Something for Nothing

"...go ahead and download me, see if I care
in love war and cyberspace, everything's fair
and it's ok to steal 'cause it's so nice to share...'


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Don Wagstaff

Re: Ad Triangulum (And maybe some Ad Quadratum too) #24364 09/06/10 12:25 PM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Buckyballs.....string.....Egypt......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5DlXFzj0SE&feature=sub

Tim

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