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Southern Germanic Framing #24957 12/31/10 04:07 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Here's my pitch....

I hope to generate some interest in this style of timber framing, and bring it more to light. My goal is that this style might be considered a genuine option for a timber framed home in North America.

First of all, some history. Some of it you probably know, some of it you may not.

American timber framing today is descended from a colonial style that was more or less an adaptation of the British style, along with a few infusions from Dutch and North German building styles. The arrival of thousands of settlers from the southern German lands, collectively known as the Pennsylvania Dutch, was really to late to really have much of an affect on the style of the frame itself -thy would build their frames according to the established American methods. Its only real effect was on the profile of the frame itself, and the design of the building as a whole. The south German style survived in America only in a few small instances of isolated communities. Even the Amish would come to build their frames according to the American style. The biggest reason for this is that it was the cultural norm, the way that the locals did things. "when in Rome..."
Another possible reason may have been the availability of tools, though I am not convinced that American tools would have made it any more difficult to make a German frame.

As for the German frame itself, it has a very ancient lineage. The frame design is the result of a fusion that occurred during the middle ages, but ultimately began as soon as the southern tribes (here we will ultimately focus on the Allemani) settled in Roma lands. The German frame developed when the earth posted frame of the migrant tribes came in contact with the far more sophisticated frames that the Romans were accustomed to building.

In the middle ages, advances in farming techniques marked the end of the transient days of the Germanic tribes, They settled down in one place, and established farms that would remain in one family for generations. As a result, they started building structures that would last for generations as well. They had already been doing this since they took over the old Roman cities. They knew how to build lasting structures, they just didn't see the need to do so if they were just going top have to move once their farmland was exhausted.

Timber framing reached its height from the 15th through the 17th century. At the end of the 1300's they developed a style that is still in use to this day, and that style rose to be the dominant form of timber framing by the late 1400's in all but the alpine regions, where log building was preferred (and still is to this day)
This style developed to make use of limited resources, yet it is quite well suited to making structures of tremendous size as can be seen in the traditional Bernese Bauernhaus.
This system has survived into the present day, and has only been marginally replaced with modern methods. The Allemanic people are, after all, fiercely traditionalist people.

The particular style that I have focused my study on in what is known as the Allemanic Style. The feature that most distinguished this style from other German styles is its simplicity. It generally does not make use of the complex decorative bracing frequently associated with German frames, and is designed first and foremost to be functional. The amount of timber used is generally the amount that is practical and sound. No more, no less. It is not exactly minimalist, but it is not ornate either.

Each floor of the structure is framed semi-independent of the others. There are no posts that extend the full height of the walls. The framing of each floor can be thought of as similar to stick framing, in that each wall is made of a rectangular frame.

Another feature is that there is no use of any bent or other cross sectional framework at all. In fact, there is nothing that can really be categorized as a tie beam at all. Instead there are a number of stout timbers that simultaneously function as floor joists and as ties, providing direct support to the floor and resisting outward thrust at the same time. On wider buildings these are joined together at a beam running through the middle of the building, rather than being cut to the full length. This tie-joist system allows for significantly less joinery to be cut. The joists may or may not join to the plate above a post.

Traditionally the braces are very long, slanting between two posts, but actually being joined in many cases to the sill and plate rather than to the posts themselves. The result is a lack of true triangulation, but the network of bracing both in the walls and in the roof structure (where true triangles certainly exist) tend to be more than sufficient. The braces are often lapped, but are sometimes mortised as well.

The roofs are not built with trusses, but rather are purlin framed. The purlins can be supported by direct posting (stehender dachstuhl), but are also commonly supported with a truss system called in German Liegendem Dachtuhl, which more or less could be translated as leaning truss (lit. reclining roof chair) Stuhl (chair) is often used to denote a roof-support system. The advantage of the latter is an almost totally open roof space.

The advantages of this system are largely the same advantages that caused it to catch on in the first place. It makes use of much smaller timbers, and each individual timber is not nearly as critical as it would be in a structure with wide spaced bents. This allows the use of smaller timbers, either from smaller trees (which is attractive if you are doing it all by hand) or multiple cuts from a single log. The design of the system is such that you can use much shorter timbers as well. There is no need for long plates, or even for long ties. The roof system is even designed so that short rafters can be used.

The joinery is also very simple and straightforward. complex scarf joints don't seem to exist except perhaps in the long purlins, and there are no complicated post/tie/plate connections. While there is more joinery to be done since there are more total framing members, the joints are all very simple.

There is no excessively heavy lifting. Such a frame can be erected without the use of any sort of crane or raising poles, or any such like. There are no bents to raise and so there are no multi-ton assemblies to carefully fly into place. A crew of 3 or 4 would be plenty sufficient to build the entire structure, even without a crane.

The smaller cavities between posts makes the infill question a whole lot easier to answer. many small spaces are a whole lot easier to enclose than few large spaces, and the amount of extra framing to support any non SIP, non natural wall system would be minimal, in same cases all the would be necessary would be small board to support drywall.

IF you are building with dried wood, smaller timber are far less expensive to kiln dry, and take far less time, and are far less susceptible to splitting and excessive cracking. If you are building with green wood, smaller timbers will move significantly less in a completed frame.

I plan on traveling to Germany and Switzerland in the near future to study the buildings up close and thoroughly document the framing and joinery involved, as well as variations in regional styles. In the mean time, however, there is quite a wealth of information available on the subject online if you can read German, including complete listings and diagrams of every timber joint known in Germany, and schematics of every 'dachstuhl' ever used. The Germans are after all known for their precision and detail.

I do admit a certain bias to this particular style. I am myself of very strong Allemanic Swiss heritage. I grew up looking at pictures from the old country, and with the idea that that is the ideal life, and those are ideal homes. However, I do think this system has a lot to offer us today.

D L Bahler


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24960 12/31/10 08:01 AM
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Hi DLB,

It would be helpful if you could provide us with an outline book reference list that will allow us to read up on the Germanic platform framing technique.

When / where do you plan to visit in Southern Germany ? I know of a number of people here who might be keen to make that trip.

Regards

Ken Hume


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24964 12/31/10 02:12 PM
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DLB, this is very interesting to me. There are a lot of similarities in your description to how we do things here at Brooks Post and Beam. Our emphasis is on efficiency and cost savings to the customer and admittedly to the bottom line!

It is no suprise to me that a germanic/swiss design should be efficient. I have to confess that I am an imposter and really don't know much other than how to build affordable timber frames by working long hours, being such an intellectual slouch I learn best from "picture books". Do you have any links or pictures of this style? Think of it as an "Introduction to Southern Germanic Timber Framing for Dummies".

Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24967 12/31/10 05:28 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Ken, I don't know when for certain I would make the trip. It depends a lot on when I have the time and money to do so.
When I do go, the study of buildings isn't going to be the only thing I do either!

As for an outline book reference, that will take some work! I am not aware of any book on the subject in the English language, and I have searched hard for one.

The website Fachwerk.de is a good starting point. The also have a books list there on that site.
search for pics of Fachwerk, Fachwerkhaus, Riegelhaus, and 'Alemannische Fachwerk'


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24970 12/31/10 06:23 PM
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I have been researching European framing of late and just learned about the difference between framing with full height posts (standerbauweise or geschossbau) and what relates to platform framing (rahmbauweise or stockwerkbau)in Germany. What I have read is that the platform framing is not as ancient as the two-story post type framing, though this, as everything, may relate to what region we are talking about.

Here is an illustration of three styles of fachwerk including Alemannic, Frankish and Saxon.

http://uploader.wuerzburg.de/bbz2/fst_03/fachwerk/bilder/entsteh1.jpg

I think the Dutch had more of an influence on American building history than is recognized. I recently learned that the probable origin of our every-day term bent is from Dutch gebint or, less likely, German gebinde, both of which translate in simple terms to "an assembly".

Very interesting, looking forward to more discussion.

Jim


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24972 12/31/10 07:39 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Indeed, the Rähmbauweise is a later development, and the oldest medieval buildings are Ständerbau.

Rähm might be translated as plate, so this style could be referred to as Plate-building style
Ständer would e translated as post, so it could be translated as post-built style. The difference between them is that in Ständerbau, the posts extend from the foundation to the roof, but in Rähmbau they are interrupted.
(weise is a cognate of the English word wise or ways, like in cross-ways. It basically means style)

Ständerbau developed during the early middle ages, and Rähmbau seems to have replaced it in most regions by around 1400 to 1450, 1500 at the very latest. Some of my findings suggest that the Rähmbau style caught on much earlier in Switzerland where it quickly became the dominant style where timber framing was done.

In the context of this history, we need to examine 2 other styles.

Blockbau, which is simply the German term for log building. Blockbau is still used in alpine regions, notably in places like the Oberland region of Switzerland and in Austria. This style uses squared timbers, often with complex corner joints.

Ständerbohlenbau, which sits sort of between timber framing and log building. It is built as a timber frame and between the timbers thick boards are stacked. This style was dominant in the Swiss countryside up to the 1500's, and may indeed be the forerunner of Rähmbauweise, considering that such buildings are in fact built with a platform method. This style has survived into the modern day in Switzerland, where the thick (often stated as being 'thick as an arm') solid wood boards are replaced by processed sandwiches consisting of exterior layers of wood with an insulation material in the middle. With this style, additional triangular bracing is often applied to the exterior of the frame, half lapped into the framing members. This buildings are noted for being remarkably sturdy, and generally the oldest surviving buildings in Switzerland tend to be of this type.

here is a good image from google showing this style:


and another


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24975 01/01/11 03:13 AM
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Smaller, shorter members in my mind is revolutionary. Being able to handle so much of the job alone and with reduced effort is a huge plus. The other thing about smaller, shorter members is they are easier to find and maybe most important of all bring down costs tremendously.

The one thing I have trouble with mentally though is the braces. Normally when I see a TF brace it looks intuitively placed and connected. The Allemanic braces however just don't look right to my untrained eye. They also appears an inefficient use of wood to have such long braces.

That one JPG linked showed a lot, but it would be useful see more pictures of this type of frame if one could post some here.

Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24977 01/01/11 08:11 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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The one image shown depicted a specific subset of the Allemanic style, a form developed for visual impact. The type I am referring to would be more of a 'country allemanic' if you will, the style prevalent on farmhouses and in villages, rather than the ornate frames of city buildings.

here is an example:


or for a more ornate, upscale version:



and as a point of clarification, what I in fact have in mind here is actually the Southern Allemanic style, and not the general Allemanic style as a whole. Some forms of Allemanic can be quite complex! The southern style is often marked by its austere simplicity, and functional building style. Exactly what you might expect from Swiss farmers.

Last edited by D L Bahler; 01/01/11 08:18 AM.

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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24978 01/01/11 08:37 AM
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To me, too, the use of smaller timbers seems to be one of the most desirable features. It is amazing how the dimensions of a timber affect its price, and how it affects the way the timbers act in situ. I think it is important also to note how much of an effect the use of rectangular rather than square timbers can have. If you are sawing your timbers, it means more timbers can be yielded from any one length of log. If you are hewing, it means smaller trees can be used.

Now when considering a style like this, remember one thing, there is absolutely no reason why we have to do it exactly like they do. We don't have to copy their style to the t. If you are not a fan of the long braces, you don't have to use them. I happen to like their appearance visually.

I think one reason for them though is that their length gives them more opportunity to brace. They are not only joined at the top and the bottom, but also at the middle rail or rails in each cavity (brüstungsriegel). Sort of the same idea of the long passing braces in English frames that may pass as many as 5 posts.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24984 01/01/11 06:58 PM
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Hi D L;

In your opening post you said "In the middle ages, advances in farming techniques marked the end of the transient days of the Germanic tribes, They settled down in one place, and established farms that would remain in one family for generations. As a result, they started building structures that would last for generations as well."

I was aware of this transition, but I thought it started occuring 8,000 to 4,000 BC. I know there were migratory peoples until recently, an interesting example being the "forest Finns" who practice slash and burn agriculture where they clear an area of forest, burn the bursh, farm the land until the soil neutrients are reduced which can be a short time such as a few years, and then they cut down another area of forest etc. Do you think there were nomadic peoples in the area we now call southern Germany as late as say the tenth century AD?

Also, I want to agree with you that fachwerk is an ancient tradition and I think it is likely a continuation of the Roman building style of half-timbering Vitruvious called opus craticium. There are surviving buildings in Italy that were burried by the eruption of Mt. Visuvious in 79 AD that were found and excavated. Pretty cool that there are surviving half-timbered buildings from around the beginning of Christianity!!

http://sites.google.com/site/ad79eruption/herculaneum-1/insula-iii-2/house-of-the-opus-craticium


This style of a wooden frame infilled with stone or brick has been studied by engineers because the traditional Turkish houses built like this (in Turkish called Himis) tend to survive earthquakes better than other types.

I have studied plank framing starting in the U.S. and working my way backward in time to Europe. I have found good information on types of building like the Ständerbohlenbau in the Low Countries, but I had only seen references to the use of plank walls in Switzerland...I have not been able to find drawings or a good history so your informing me of the name of this style should help me find information on this style. Thanks!!

Is the Ständerbohlenbau a type of construction you are trying to bring attention to here or mainly the Southern Allemanic style of fachwerk?

Thanks;
Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24985 01/01/11 07:23 PM
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The Germanic tribes were semi-migratory people. The developments BC were a transition from hunter-gather to farming communities. However, these communities could not be permanent over a period of generations, because the people did not understand the importance of replenishing soil nutrients, so as a result they would over time deplete their farms, and have to move on to new lands.

The Germanic tribes in particular moved a lot, and underwent long periods of migration, most notably the early medieval Great Migration, where tribes systematically moved in and picked apart the remnants of the Western Roman Empire -establishing Germanic dynasties in the previously Roman territories of France, Britain, Switzerland, Spain, and even Italy. Another example being the Viking Age.

This all ended when the monasteries introduced a new farming practice, crop rotation. They introduced the 3 field system, and so Germanic farming communities suddenly became permanent.

As far as descent from Roman tradition, I would love to agree with that, but everything I have read claims that is not so, at least not to a very high degree. IT is generally agreed that he Roman techniques were lost and building across western europe reverted to post building for a few centuries. As far as I can tell, roman techniques are thought to have only survived in roof framing.

The half timbered design is shown to be descended from post building, with an intermediate style with posts set on stones and an externally braced frame, similar to the Norse langhús
[img[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Fyrkat_hus_stor.jpg[/img]

which leads to styles similar to the alpine Ständerbohlenbau or Scandinavian Stavverk, which seems to lead off in 2 directions. This style ultimately develops in some regions to half timbering, essentially the wood panels are replaced with stone or brick or some such. In other regions, the posts are eliminated and the style becomes log building. It is believed that both half timbering and log building are developed from the post built house.

I dont think it would not be entirely accurate to categorize Ständerbohlenbau as Fachwerk, and I don't think that the Germans do, as the word is generally intended to refer to a half timbered structure. But it is an important step in the development of the style.

I had found a Swiss website once with information on Ständerbohlenbau and historical development, but I don't know if I will be able to find it again.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #24994 01/03/11 12:43 AM
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What would be ideal is if there is something as simple as the tiny book "Historic American Timber Joinery: A Graphic Guide" by Jack Sobon that shows pictures of joinery types and where to use them. As of now I am not seeing enough detail to fully understand how a structure is put together and with only sketchy German resources it is unrealistic to contemplate a build based on it.

And is it spelled Allemanic or Alemannic? Google doesn't like the former spelling.

Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25001 01/03/11 06:09 PM
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then probably the latter spelling! due to the fact that the German form is Alemannisch. The Germanic tribe can be referred to as Alamanni, Allemanni, or Alemanni.

http://www.modellbau-quedlinburg.de/mbq/cms/front_content.php?idcat=142

that website has all of the joints used, but doesn't tell you exactly how they are used. maybe I should undertake this project to create a book on Historic German Timber Joinery.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25050 01/07/11 02:49 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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A few more details...

I have talked about two features already that are different in German framing, that is smaller timbers placed closer together. This is a trait common in all German framing, and is one of its distinguishing features. But I haven't given any indication as to HOW small and HOW CLOSE together.

The posts are very small compared to the frames in America. Where we might use something in the range of 8x8 and up, the Germans dominantly use posts with dimensions approximately 5x5", 4x6", etc. with an upper range of around 6x8", and corner posts sometimes as big as 8x8" (on my project the corner posts are 6x9")

Obviously if they were to use such small posts in a bent construction method like we do, their walls would fall apart, or there would be an excessive number of bents. Instead each wall is assembled as a frame -usually piece by piece instead of being assembled on the ground and raised in place- with posts spaced somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 feet apart, depending largely on desired appearance.

In addition to this, rails (germ. Riegel) are placed horizontally between all of the posts, with at least 1 in each cavity, and often 2 or even more (again, appearance seems to be the biggest factor) These 'Riegeln' are somewhere in the neighborhood of 4x5 inches or so. They stiffen up the frame, and provide more locations for the long braces to attach. The result is an amazingly rigid frame, that has variously withstood direct bomb hits and earthquakes.

The dimensions of the other timbers are all based around these, the sills, plates, purlins, etc. will generally be of similar size to the posts.

In addition, there are 3 different kinds of braces used, each with a different name in German. The first is the simple corner brace, set at a 45 degree angle between a vertical and horizontal timber. If it meets these two requirements, it is called a "band" one such brace at the bottom of a cavity is known as a 'Fussband' and one at the top is known as a 'Kopfband'

If, however, a brace is at an angle shallower than 45 degrees then it goes by a different name, 'Strebe' If it passes from a post to a plate, it is called a Kopfstrebe. If it passes from post to sill, it is calles a Fussstrebe. If it slants from sill to plate, not attaching to any post, it is called a Wandstrebe

The third type of brace is a triangular piece of wood stuck in a corner. This is known as a Knagge, with Fuß or Kopf added depending on whether it is angled up or angled down.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25055 01/07/11 04:12 AM
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Here is a picture that shows very well a Typical Bernese Swiss house, and shows the framing components effectively

In this picture you can clearly see:
Small posts, spaced close
Rähmbau style, with ends of the joists exposed on the long side
Simple and effective bracing -the x-shaped bracing is known in German as Adreaskreuz, or Saint Andrew's Cross
High windows, a specifically Bernese Swiss feature
Single 'Riegel' per cavity, another typical Swiss feature (simple and effective, and at the same time visually appealing)

Also note the difference in spacing between the posts and the joists, lining up only occasionally.

I am working on making some diagrams of this style of framing to explain things further. In the mean time, ask about any other features you are unclear about. It helps me to better describe things when I know what most needs described.

DLB


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25120 01/10/11 06:04 PM
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It is of interest to consider the relationship of the German style to, for example, the Anglo-American or even the English styles.

In Essence, the older German style of the earlier Middle Ages, Ständerbauweise, is virtually identical to these two styles, with a few variations as is to be expected. In fact, American timber framing is in German referred to as Ständerbau.
The general method of framing is pretty much the same idea. Walls are framed as one mass, in some examples being rather bent-like in configuration. Tie beams are used, in the north taking on a drop-tie form and in the south a form similar to the English tie. floor separations are established by means of horizontal timbers mortised directly into the posts, at times with long tenons extending through the post to the exterior where they are wedged.

But in the 15th century the Germans totally reinvented their frame.

The question must be asked, why did they make this change from the style that was prevalent across most of Europe? What advantages did they see in this? Why did their culture decide that this method was superior, while everyone else continued on with their various versions of the older system?

It must be noted that the Ständerbau style is not a style that was so much passed around among everyone in the middle ages, rather everyone developed this style from its immediate predecessor, the earth-posted frame, which is something that was inherited by all of the people who came under Germanic tribal dominance, hence the remarkable similarity between early medieval German, French, English, Low Country, and Scandinavian framing.

It should also be noted that everywhere where jettied buildings were built, they seem to have developed a style similar to the German Rähmbau, but the older high posted style continued in use in other bu8ildings and in the countryside, whereas in the Holy Roman Empire it passed out of use entirely by the late 15th century in everything but barns.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25180 01/14/11 06:18 AM
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To understand the difference between German framing and American framing we need to understand the most fundamental variation. In an American frame, the single most important joint is the tying joint. The entire frame is wholly reliant on the proper execution of this joint to function. (There are notable exceptions where trussing action is relied on to accomplish this goal so that the ceiling space is open) In German framing, this joint does not exist at all, except in a few barns built according to the older style. There is no such thing as a tying joint in this tradition; it has been totally discarded.
But we still must resist outward thrust.

German frames use 2 techniques simultaneously to deal with this issue. First, there is a joint system in every frame that resists thrust, and does so quite well. But it is not a tying joint. Instead they use the floor or ceiling joists which always run across the structure to do this. These joists are sandwiched between two horizontal timbers, with simple cogged or dovetailed joints extending about an inch into both of them. These joints are known as kammverbindungen, or comb joints. The timber below the joists is the top plate, and the one below is a special sill that supports the roof framing known as a Stuhlschwelle (literally chair sill, although the roof framework is known as Dachstuhl, or roof chair) This sill generally supports leaning posts that hold up purlins, which in turn support collar beams which tie rafter pairs together and give them support.

The other system used to resist thrust is the Dachstuhl, or roof support, itself. This system effectively transfers most of the roof load into a downward force, bringing outward thrust to a minimum. German roof framing relies exclusively on purlins for roof support, and not on complex trussing. Although at times the purlin support framework can take on the form of a complex, truss-like system. The two types used on houses are the Stehender Dachstuhl, which relies on directly posted purlins, and the liegender Dachstuhl, which relies on leaning posts with special bracing to support the purlins. It should be noted that these posts lean toward the center of the structure, however, and not outward like the leaning posts in many American barns. They rely on struts to convert loads from horizontal to vertical. They also have proven their effectiveness over some very large open spans.

As far as rafters and joists go, spacing varies from region to region. It would appear that in the north it is common for rafter and joist spacing to match post spacing (and post spacing in these regions is perhaps closer than in others), with rafters joining directly into the joists, while in southern regions it is far more common for the rafters and joists to be much smaller and much closer together, with the rafters passing over a special sill to form wide overhangs. Post spacing in the southern rural areas seems to be the widest, at times perhaps exceeding 4 feet. The large Bernese Swiss Bauernhaus seems to employ the widest post spacing out of any of the styles I have seen, averaging around 4 feet or a little less, while joist and rafter spacing seems to be the closest (around 2 feet to perhaps 32 inches) These same Bauernhäuser also tend to be the largest fachwerk buildings.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25189 01/14/11 09:16 PM
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Here are some books, as promised earlier.

Das Holzbau-Buch by Adolf Opderbecke.
Google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=FAI0i7h...p;q&f=false

Das Zimmermannsbuch by Theodor Krauth and Franz Sales Meyer, 1895

Both are in German. Look them up on Amazon.de and you will be shown many other related books


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing [Re: D L Bahler] #25261 01/21/11 02:39 AM
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Here are some drawing that I made up to hopefully clarify things a bit.

Please feel free to bring up anything that is unclear to you

right click->view image to see a larger picture

The first picture is a general picture of the frame, with the various parts labeled with their German names. It should be noted that terminology is note 100% compatible with the common English terms, especially when classifying joints.

You can see very clearly here that each story is framed independently. Pay special attention to the timbers labeled Deckenbalken. These timbers function primarily as floor joists, but the joinery is also designed so that they resist thrust in lieu of tie beams. They are sandwiched between stories, or between the top plate and the roof.

The next picture here shows in detail the joint type known as Verkämmung, or Kammverbindungen. This is the joint used to secure the Deckenbalken. This is one of many variations of this joint, perhaps the best suited for general application.

The Deckenbalken is often extended out past the lower story and the second story wall is jettied out, with the plate out on the end of the joist-beams.

the last picture here shows a breakdown of a simple wall layout. as you can see short tenons are used frequently.

These drawing are made reflecting the following proportions:
4x6 wall posts, braces, cross bars, sills, joists, and plates
6x9 corner posts
4 foot post spacing
8 foot ceilings


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DachKontruktion - Roof Construction [Re: D L Bahler] #25411 02/03/11 01:14 AM
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Another important matter to consider is how the roof is built. It is important that a roof structure be well adapted to the frame that is supporting it.

In the German tradition, roofs are generally classified into 3 Categories: Sparrendach, Kehlbalkendach, and Pfettendach

A Sparrendach is a roof structure that relies on the rafetrs (Sparren) to bear the load of the roof. This may refer to clear span rafters with no trussing action going on, or it may involve minimal trussing. The general rule the germans use is that a Sparrendach is unsuitable for any slope shallower than 30 degrees.

A Kehlbalkendach is a roof system that adds collar beams to the rafters. For larger spans, purlins can be placed under the collar beam to provide additional support.

A Pfettendach is a roof that uses purlins (pfetten) to directly support the rafters.

Trusses are rare, and are generally more in the category of light trusses when they do appear. Common purlins are all but unheard of. A truss roof is referred to as a Dachstuhl, but Dachstuhl can also be used to refer to a system of purlin support framing.

the 4 most important roof types to know of are the Einfacher Kehlbalkendach [simple collar beam roof] Stehender Kehlbalkendachstuhl [collar beams supporting by direct-posted purlins] Liegender Kehlbalkendachstuhl [collar beams are supported by purlins which are supported by inward-canted posts, a cruck-like construction very common in Switzerland] and Stehender Pfettendachstuhl [directly posted purlins that support the rafters, no collar ties]
pictured in order from the last paragraph:





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Re: DachKontruktion - Roof Construction #25472 02/08/11 01:09 AM
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Hi D. L.

First some housekeeping:

I could not get the illustration on your January 20th post to enlarge, if this is true with others than the names are illegible.

In your sentence just under this illustration "It should be noted that terminology is note 100% compatible with the common English terms, especially when classifying joints." I think note should say not.

And, I do not understand the description pfettendach roof. I see lots of collars, what do you mean "...Stehender Pfettendachstuhl [directly posted purlins that support the rafters, no collar ties]"?

The Liegender Kehlbalkendachstuhl did make it to America, particularly in places Germans settled in numbers and is known by the simpler name "Liegender stuhl" such as is illustrated in the book The Pennsylvania barn: its origin, evolution, and distribution in North America. It may be a coincidence but this type of assembly is a relatively common way to frame a gambrel roof, too.

http://books.google.com/books?id=y6T_kOFmeRQC&pg=RA2-PA209&lpg=RA2-PA209&dq=%22liegender+stuhl%22&source=bl&ots=Lhc1WlKiUX&sig=imOmovgKXfCs3_QcDYMnJxEyuGk&hl=en&ei=npNQTdHbE9PpgQfc-rC-CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22liegender%20stuhl%22&f=false.


I find it interesting that the use of an upper and lower plate capturing a tie beam or joist is such a widespread European technique. I think it is an ancient form.

Also, is there much difference between the names of the framing pieces in standard German vs. Swiss-German? Other dialects?

Thanks;
Jim


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"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: DachKontruktion - Roof Construction #25474 02/08/11 01:46 AM
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Are you using firefox? With firefox right click on the image and hit 'view image' and it should load it full-size. I Don't know about Internet Explorer or Google Chrome or other browsers. If it is a problem, I can post links to the pictures.

yes, note should say not. Unfortunately I can't go back and change it any more!

In a Pftetendach roof there are collars many times, but if you look closely you will see the purlin is above, not below, the collars. In this case, the only function of the collars is to support an attic floor. The purlins here support the rafters, in a Kehlbalkendach the purlins support the collars.

In German, the Ligender Kehlbalkendachstuhl is usually just shortened to liegender stuhl, but the former is its 'technical', descriptive name. Although Liegender Stuhl is more general and at times refers to a pfettendach as well. Thanks for the link, I had been wanting to track this down to see if it had made it over here!

There are various theories as to where the Gambrel roof came from. Sometimes it is thought to be an American invention, however this cannot be the case. Many suspect it has its origins in Switzerland, as it is common in certain regions, particularly the cantons of Jura and Schwyz, for barn roofs to be framed like this. I have heard it said that Swiss Mennonites who came from Kanton Bern by way of the Jura brought this type of barn with it. The Pennsylvania barn is at times credited to the Swiss Mennonites and Amish of Pennsylvania, both of which have origins in Bern and the Jura.

The American log cabin, it can be noted, also comes from Switzerland ultimately. The English settlers of America didn't have them. At one point thousands of settlers from Switzerland arrived in the Appalachians, bringing with them their blockbau techniques. The American corner joints are rather simplified versions of the old Swiss ones, intended for strict function and ease, and adapted to local hardwoods.

As far as the captured joists, the Germans at least came it is their invention, and spread to the rest of Europe from the Holy Roman Empire. It is not ancient, the earliest examples known are from the 15th century. Before that German houses were framed quite a bit like we make timber frames in America today.

As far as terminolgy, the German language itself has to be discussed. Until very recently it was almost an imaginary language, with most literate people able to read and write it but few of them able to actually speak it. The German dialects are quite diverse.
Germany, and Switzerland have 2 different standards, but they are very similar. Sort of like American and British English. As far as I can tell, the terminology tends to be more or less the same. A large reason for this is likely that they are in most cases learned from books.

There are a few 'dialekt' terms I have come across no and then, but scholarly publication tend to use more or less the same terms.

One example, however, of how terminology can vary is the name of a post. It can be called a Pfost, Ständer, or Steil. These three can also at times have more distinct meanings, a Pfost for example may refer to a buried post, and Steil may be used to refer to a stud. The joists can be referred to as Balken or Deckenbalken (beams or ceiling beams) and the names of roof structures vary, mostly with how descriptive the writer is trying to be. (Liegender Stuhl v. Liegender Kehlbalkendachstuhl)


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing [Re: D L Bahler] #25496 02/10/11 02:53 AM
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Some more things for consideration:

It is very common in German framework, and almost universal in Switzerland, for the braces to stretch from the sill to the plate, creating very long slanted braces. There is a very good reason behind this. These braces are resisting storm loads in buildings that are using relatively small posts for support, which are joined above and below with short tenons. By not having the braces brace into the posts, they are not required to handle any extra loading during storms or high winds, but rather the brace loading is transferred directly to the length of the horizontal timbers. This, however, has the disadvantage of not forming triangles.

Braces can be slanted inwards and join to wall posts, forming true triangles. The same problems still apply but are alleviated by having an opposing brace press against the other side of the same post. This requires a lot of wall space, and so is not always practical. The former setup has proven itself to be more than efficient, and is the dominant technique used in nearly all non-decorative Fachwerk buildings.

As for the small posts, there are two reasons why this is used:

1, as mentioned earlier it allows you to use smaller and lower grade materials without detrimental effects.
2. Apparently one of the primary factors in developing this system was to create interior walls that are free from intruding projections. IF the timbers are seen on the inside of a German house, they are flush with the wall surface.

In the case of barns and utility buildings this is not a concern. These buildings are very often built with more of a bent-profile style of construction, or at least a Fachwerk style wall with much larger timbers. It is rare, however, to see barns in the Canton of Bern. The common farm setup in most of the region is the large Bauernhause, which has a two level structure which serves on one end as the stables and on the other as the living quarters, and has a large upper level (the Heustock) that provides storage for hay and farm equipment. This upper level is accessed by a large framed and usually fully enclosed ramp.

What is interesting about the Bauernhaus is it appears to be descended from a Medieval predecessor that was typically built of stone. These stone houses were limited to the wealthier farmers, and the advancements in timber framing allowed this type of farm setup to be used by everybody.

One thing about posts, there are 3 categories that posts in the typical Fachwerk wall (Fachwerkwand) can be put in.
1 The Ecktänder, or corner post. These are generally the biggest posts. They must be made of adequate size and proportion to resist forces in two directions.
2: The Bundständer. These are posts where two walls come together. Very often they are somewhat wider than the the other posts to accommodate the thickness of the adjoining wall.
3: the regular old Ständer. These are the posts that aren't in the corners or aren't at the junction of two walls. They are typically rectangular in cross section, as they only need to be able to resist lateral forces in 1 direction. They mark the inner and outer surfaces of the wall, and they depth determines the dimensions of everything else as it is desirable in Fachwerk to have smooth inner and outer walls.

I also found this good picture, which does a good job of illustrating the setup and joinery of a simple wall. In particular pay attention to the different scarf joints used for the sills and the plates, reflecting the differences in the loads they are expected to bear. Also pay attention to the fact that the 'Riegel' around the bress is let in (verblattung) rather than mortised in.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25525 02/14/11 10:08 PM
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Interesting.

I have been using internet explorer and now Google chrome which is much faster, at least on my six year old laptop.

I have researched the gambrel roof and here is the bottom line of what I know. The origin is not known but was used by Pierre Lescot on the Louvre in France around 1550. Often credited to Francios Mansart but not correct. Mansart did however popularize the style and thus France is the popular origin of the gambrel since about 1625. The earliest gambrels I have found in America were on mansions and truly architectural buildings like the second hall at Harvard College (built between 1672-1682, burned 1764) and the Peter Tufts house of 1675 in Medford, Massachusetts, possibly the oldest brick house in the USA. I have found about fourteen ways to design a gambrel roof in historic carpentry texts, mostly in French books and some German.

Jim


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25526 02/14/11 10:32 PM
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Look for old buildings in the Jura, the East Midlands and central Switzerland (All in Switzerland). Those are the regions where I am aware of the popular use of Gambrel roofs. The Jura is mostly French speaking, and so it is entirely believable that it could have entered there by way of France, however the other two regions have virtually no French influence, and are historically isolated from the French Cantons by the large Canton of Bern and of course lots of mountains and valleys. I would be very surprised if it was a French technique in that case. I have always understood and assumed that it developed naturally out of the dominant Liegender Stuhl roof system that is the most common roof in timber frames in German Switzerland by far. It seems to be a common roof (the gambrel) in all of German Switzerland except in Canton Bern which has its won very unique architectural style.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing [Re: D L Bahler] #25654 02/25/11 06:48 AM
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Check this guy out
http://www.swisswoodenhomes.com/en/home.html

This guy is one amazing craftsman
Look at the pictures of his work, and be awed

The amazing thing is, nearly all f the old houses where he is from (Judging by building style and decoration style, I would guess the Berner Oberland region) are at least as richly decorated as what he has shown here, sometimes a LOT more


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25673 02/25/11 08:23 PM
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A little bit about bracing...

It has come to my attention that I should deal with the matter of rigidity of frameworks. The American frame is a very flexible assembly. It can move a great deal without any danger to the structure. Unfortunately modern codes require us to stiffen our frames somehow when we build them.

The Germans, on the other hand, build frames to be immovably rigid. They are built so that they just will not be swayed.

This simple fact is very likely a big reason for the drastic difference between the bracing techniques in American and German framing. Knee braces are all but unheard of in later German framing, instead they rely on very long braces. This is because they are expecting their braces to do two things, resist racking and resist lateral force. A short knee brace does an excellent job of resisting racking, but a terrible job of resisting lateral forces.

Since they are expected to bear 2 forces simultaneously these braces must be treated a lot differently. They have the potential to have a lot more force transferred through them than a knee brace typically will have, and for this reason it is considered bad practice to brace them against a post without an opposing brace on the same post (never on a corner post) The forces during a storm could potentially push the post out of its joint.

The reigeln also help a great deal in this regard. They by themselves don't do anything to prevent racking of the frame -dividing a rectangle into two rectangles doesn't make it any less likely to change its angles- but they do greatly limit the flexibility of the frame. The assembly makes it so that all of the posts are pushing against each other, almost eliminating the possibility of any timbers flexing under lateral loads.

When you add to this the long braces which cross the reigeln and bring them into bracing action, the frame has very little ability to rack or flex much at all.

The is 1 potential weakness with the German frame. A very long wall with no supports in this system is unstable, and the building has the potential to flex in the middle which is certainly not good, particularly with a masonry infill.

There are 2 commonly used solutions to this. The first is to brace the walls against each other and against flexing with an interior wall built in the same fashion as the exterior walls, perhaps a little thinner. The second is to use a series of framed buttresses, usually on the inside. Essentially these are wall frames about the length of 1 or 2 cavities, complete with braces and riegeln. The first is the most common, and can be easily incorporated into the floor plan of the building. The second is used if there are no walls close to where bracing is needed, such as in a large hall.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25876 03/13/11 06:55 PM
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Hi D. L.;

If you ever see a building with a gambrel roof that is thought to be from before 1625 I sure would like to know about it.

The above illustration is titled "Bundständer". What does bund mean and are you familiar with the highly decorative type of framing known as bundwerk?

I just found a copy of the book Schweizer Bauernkunst by Daniel Baud-Bovy (1926) at a local antiques store. Now all I need to do is figure out the darn text and learn to read German! Nice illustrations and photos.

Thanks;
Jim


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25877 03/13/11 09:26 PM
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Hmm, can't say I'm not more than a bit envious of your acquisition, Jim. How long is the book? If it is not too long, is there any way you could make digital images of the whole, including the text, and send them my way? If you could do this, I am sure I could in exchange help you translate from the German, depending on how technical the text is.

A Bundstaender is a post that joins 2 walls together, and as such is generally a bit larger than the other wall posts. 'Bund' here having a meaning similar to the English bond, with which I am sure it is a cognate. From what I can tell, bundwerk is a kind of cross timbering, or timbers crossing at diagonals to from a repeating X pattern. Common on some gable walls, where it is easier to execute in some instances than a regular frame.

from the German Wikipedia, bundwerk



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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25934 03/18/11 06:02 AM
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in the way of an update of sorts...

I have been learning about 'Riegelbau' from a Swiss carpenter. Riegelbau is the Swiss version of the German Fachwerk, which can be done either in Gefäch, or half timbering, or covered over with siding. Regardless of the enclosure method, the framing is basically the same. The interior of such structures is almost always covered over with wood panelling of some sort, or in later examples plaster, the timbers typically are not exposed and the framing techniques go to great lenghths to ensure an even interior surface to serve as a basis for a smooth wall, meaning things like corner posts are specially shaped so as not to intrude into the interior space.

regarding the Swiss Reigelbau, here is some specific information:
Posts are typically somewhere around 5x5", maybe 4x6 or ssomewhere in that general area. The posts are spaced at intervals of about a 3 to 4 feet apart.

Sills come into 3 different categories, there are the ground sills, the wall sills for upper levels, and sills that support the rafters or roof framing in general. These are all perhaps 6x8, the extra width compared to the posts would stick to the inside.

The ground sill corners can be joined with a pinned though mortise, or in more modern building may be joined with a hidden lap joint reinforced with steel bands bolted on the outside.

The Swiss do often use the typical German method for constructing floors, where the joists are captured between plate and sill, but there is another method that they sometimes use as well.
In this case, the joists are maybe 6x6, and are dropped into the sill beams to sit flush with the top, reduced to 3 inches thickness whre they pass through the sill. The joint here is complicated, and I will have to put up a picture. It is important to note, the joists typically pass through the sill and stick to the outside of the structure a good ways, where they may have ornately carved ends or simpler adornments, or may stick out even further to support balconies. joists are spaceed 2 to 3 feet apart.

The posts are joined to sill below and plate above by means of very short tenons, which are around 1 1/2 to 2" in length, and are not pegged. the long slanting braces are joined in the same way.

the horizontal 'riegeln' are perhaps 4x5", and these may be pegged in place, but very often aren't.

There are 2 special categories of posts, the corner post and the 'Bundständer'. The corner post is often quite large, maybe 8x8 to perhaps 10x10 or even larger. However, the inside corner is cut out to form an 'L' shaped timber whose inside faces will sit in the same plane as the inside faces of the other 5x5 posts to form a continuous wall plane. The bundstaender stands where an interior wall joins the otside wall, and as such is made larger, perhaps 6x8. Once again, it is shaped with cutouts to create an even wall plane, giving it a shape somewhat like a squatted 'T'

There are a few special joints that too must be adressed,
first, in the swiss method where the joists sit flush with the sills, rather than being captured between sill and plate, there are 2 special joints needed. The timber that sits on the end walls, which in the German method would joined as another joist, must in this case employ another type of joint. This timber is made the same size as the top plate, 6x8, and in fact is both a top plate for the lower end wall and a sill for the upper.

This timber sticks out past the side wall a good ways, and the plates for the side walls are joined into it with a joint called a 'Schwalbenschwanz" which in English would be called a dovetail (the German word means Swallowtail)

The sill for the upper level therfore sits directly atop the plate, and is joined to it with pegs. in the other method where the joists are captured, the sill is instead joined with the 'kamm' joint and also pegged to the joists.

The other special case is the instance of a ridge beam, which is not always used. Here there are 2 ways in which it might support the rafters. The old way is to have the top of the beam peaked, with the rafters simply resting on top, joined to each other with a bridle joint. the newer way is to have a flat top, with bridmouths in th rafters to sit on top of it, and secured in place with a long spike or screw. here the rafter pairs would just be cut flush to each other and nailed together, the idea being that the weight in the old system is born by the bridle joint, whereas in the newr system it is born by the birdsmouts in the rafters.

the rafters themselves would be about 4x6, at the same spacing as the joists, purlins would be about 6x10, with their supporting posts 6x6 and braces 5x5

in the Bernese style, a gable overhang might be about 4 or 5 feet, while the eaves might be 3-7 feet, or even more on larger buildings with wide balconies.

a typical roof pitch is about 40 degrees, which more or less corresponds to a 10/12 pitch which is 39.81 degrees

thats enough for now, feel free to ask any questions


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #25944 03/19/11 08:25 PM
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First set of drawing, regarding some specifics of the 'Riegelbau' sub-style of the German "Fachwerk"


direct link: http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff345/HiddenOrder/scan0003.jpg
At the top is a detail of the floor framing. Note:
'Band' would be roughly equivalent to a 'plate' in American framing. Another word for this in German is Rähm, the word 'Band' it would seem is the word common among the Swiss, whereas Raehm would be used in Germany.
A literal translation of the word 'Band' could be 'tie', but do not confuse it with the tie beam in American framing, which serves an entirely different function.

The plate for the side walls are joined into the end plate, which sticks out past quite a bit, perhaps several feet, but in other cases maybe 12 or 10". The joint used here is a simple dropped in dovetail, which sets only about 1" into the end plate, and is about half the height of the beam.

The joists are set into the side wall plates with a special joint, which I don't really know just how to classify. The joist passes through the plate, reduced to half its height. everything else is better learned by studying the drawing.

Also shown are cross section of the 3 different kinds of posts used. The 'Eckständer' or corner post, with it's cutout inside corner. The regular square post, and the 'Bundständer that stands where 2 walls come together, with extra size to stand to the extra forces inherent in such a location.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26209 04/15/11 03:50 PM
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Hi- very interesting conversation. Thanks for sharing your work on this DL.

One of my earliest exposures to timber framing was being allowed to work a summer for my uncle in Rothenburg o.d.t. (southern Baden Wurttemburg) conserving old frames there, ca 1982. I was a complete novice but managed to learn a few things through osmosis.
In Jan. 2004 I spent a month in Rottweil, via the TFG, studying at the carpenter's school there. It was like coming home.

One of the things I recall learning about the evolution of German close studded frame style was that the German carpenters I worked with and learned from were sure the style developed partly to facilitate easier handling and raising in crowded village conditions. Maneuvering large timbers through town and up multiple stories was not fun, so they figured out ways to make their lives easier. As my uncle said, "we need to save time at the end of the day for beer" (though one of my primary jobs was fetching beet for morning break and lunch for the crew..)

In Rottweil, one of the carpenters there relayed an old rule of thumb turned into a saying. I'll paraphrase: "travelling long distances is to be avoided, whether it's with mothers-in-law or loads". This by way of explanation for German leaning studs, which very effectively pass wind loads to sills. North American frames, by virtue of knee braces, require the wind load to pass all the way across the frame before a brace goes in to compression, where it puts a moment on the post. It works, but is less structurally efficient.

It was also in Rottweil that I was exposed to a book called "Das Bauernhaus in Deutschland". I managed to get my hands on a reference copy from the Wisconsin library system and copied a bunch of it. It appears to be one of a series of 3: the other 2 are from Osterreich and Schweiz. Originally published in 1903 it documented thoroughly many, many ancient frames from across Germany. Many of these are gone now. If you can find this book I think you'd enjoy it.


I think, therefore I am (I think)..
Chris Koehn
TimberGuides Design • Build
Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26218 04/16/11 02:37 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Thanks for your insight, dovetail.

I would love to have the experiences that you had! I have to ask, do you have pictures? If so I would love to see them.


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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26227 04/17/11 03:42 PM
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DL- I have a few photos: digital from Rottweil and a few old analog from Rothenburg. Paper copies of "Das Bauernhaus".
Do you have a particular interest?


I think, therefore I am (I think)..
Chris Koehn
TimberGuides Design • Build
Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26246 04/21/11 08:19 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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yes, German framing! haha

In particular, anything that would show joinery details. Also anything that gives details on dimensions and spacings.

I know these maters vary from region to region, and I am interested in seeing just how

I also enjoy looking at pictures of the beautiful Fachwrkhäuser, but that is not a priority at all.

Thanks,
DLB


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26367 05/04/11 05:25 PM
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Jon Senior Offline
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My understanding for the historic reasons of the American vernacular frame were that it was related to the size of timbers available. Over-foresting in Europe had led to smaller trees and a shortage of very long timbers. Furthermore, (in the UK at least) the navy co-opted all long timbers for mast production and oak for boat building.

The European short-timbered style was a consequence of the available wood (see old cruck-framed buildings for examples of the frames using longer timbers) more than any chosen "style".

Just my take as a Brit, living in France.

Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26368 05/04/11 06:31 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Jon, travel to Switzerland or Southern Germany and examine this statement. (This being the region where this style of framing was developed) See such wonders as the Black Forest, or the great alpine forests with their impressive timber. In other parts of Europe deforestation was a huge reality, but in these places it has never occurred. My family comes from the village of Wattenwil in Canton Bern, 48.5% of the district of Wattenwil is forested, compared to only 7.4% which is settled and 42.2% which is farmed. Wattenwil lies at the end of the Gürbetal (a valley) at the foot of the alps, not far from the city of Thun. The situation here is far different than in England.

Also consider the fact that Switzerland has no navy, and most of Germany's regions historically had no navy, all being landlocked.

Rather, German short timbered style developed for the reasons dovetail pointed out, they figured out it was a much more efficient way of doing things, and a better use of their resources. My research has led me to the conclusion that short/small timbering spread to Europe from the Germans, and they adopted it for the reasons you bring out, but that was not the cause of its origins.

Swiss historians that I have read state that the younger Rähmbauweise developed in Switzerland as a cheaper alternative to the then prevalent style of stone building.

DLB


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: Southern Germanic Framing [Re: D L Bahler] #26370 05/04/11 07:20 PM
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Jon Senior Offline
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Apologies. I was new to the forum and failed to notice the four pages of existing posts, thinking that there were no replies. (I've now found the flat mode).

Interesting bit of history though. I'll read through the thread in full. I'm aware that German forests are now thriving, but I wasn't aware that it wasn't solely due to management, but they that were never so extensively deforested. I lived for four years in Scotland where the forests are heavily managed, but the historical deforestation was so extensive that large parts of the country are now essentially barren!

Jon

Re: Southern Germanic Framing #26377 05/06/11 02:01 AM
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I don't know how it is in northern Germany and especially he coastal areas, but in the south and in Switzerland there have always been extensive, healthy forests. None of these forests have any old growth, but they have been continually managed in some cases for thousands of years. The continual existence of forests in these regions is probably due largely to the rural, agrarian nature of the people here, and the fact they are far inland away from any naval center.

DLB


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