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Re: Forum Lurkers [Re: Ken Hume] #25014 01/04/11 04:12 AM
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Andrew Young Offline
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Hi Ken,

Some thoughts...


I am passionate about timber framing on several levels; to build my own house and for greater historical projects.

First of all, TF is still seen as a artsy-craftsy curiosity by many home owners who also have limited pocketbooks, especially now. Many people like the craft, but its not a cheap approach so this does limit who can afford it.

Second, its hard work. At 37 years old, I hate saying this but I feel many young(er) people are lured by the information technology/computer arena (or other fields that pay very good money for less work)...so this tends to reduce your pool of contestants. I dont see this as a huge problem in some ways because TF is still regaining acceptance. It would be far worse if there were tens of thousands of TFramers who were out of work.

Proximity. While I am self taught at many historical trades (blacksmithing, armouring, period wood work, etc) I find that timber framing is a much harder craft to practically experiment with due to its inherent size and related costs. I have tried to read as much as I can, and have acquired many period tools in an effort to learn TFing but its hard to find big logs that one can surreptitiously 'work' in ones backyard without alienating neighbors wink

So before the economy took a dive, I have hunted around for local framing business in the mid-Atlantic/Washington DC area. Few framers (that I knew of) exist out here near Washington. And of those that did, I did not get a sense that apprenticeships were ripe for the taking. Maybe I was wrong, however open slots for "seasoned newbies" was still not prevalent. And professional training can be hard if one is married and has a family that depends on a certain dollar income to survive; a poignant fact particularly now.


While I am self employed, and earn a fair living, I would jump at the chance to apprentice with a TF company if I could bring down at least 35k (to pay the mortgage, bills, etc and somehow manage to see my family a few times a month during the duration of the apprenticeship).

Re: Forum Lurkers [Re: Andrew Young] #25018 01/04/11 06:10 PM
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Gabel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Andrew Young

While I am self employed, and earn a fair living, I would jump at the chance to apprentice with a TF company if I could bring down at least 35k (to pay the mortgage, bills, etc and somehow manage to see my family a few times a month during the duration of the apprenticeship).


Andrew,

Thanks for the post. There's a lot for me to ponder from my perspective as a member of the Guild's Board of Directors as well as a member of the Apprenticeship Committee (and a registerd Journeyman and timber frame business owner).

Did you know the TFG has a Department of Labor registered Timber Framing Apprenticeship Program? It's a three year program where the apprentice works full time under the direction/supervision of a Guild Journeyworker. Each of the three years, the apprentice also takes 144 hours of "related training" where some of the skills and knowledge that are difficult to pass on in a work setting are taught.

Apprentices are required to be paid at 1/2 the JW pay for the first year, then it goes up from there.

There's tons more info on the guild homepage (www.tfguild.org) toward the bottom of the page. Be sure to check out the curriculum to see the impressive breadth and scope of what is taught in just three years. I've also attached the Guild's brochure about the program to this post in case anyone is curious.

Gabel

Attached Files
Attached PDF document
TFGApprenticeshipBrochureREV2.pdf (2.84 MB, 254 downloads)
Re: Forum Lurkers #25019 01/05/11 01:36 AM
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Andrew Young Offline
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Thanks Gabel

Ive visited your site before, great stuff. Im particularly fond of the hand hewn stuff. I will check into the files you sent.

Are you all on facebook ? Ive got a nice collection of historical axes and wood working tool sdating back to the 13th century you might find interesting. Acquired a 15th and 17th century axes just recently actually. Ive been forging/replicating working replicas based on studying the originals, which helps greatly.

Drew

Re: Forum Lurkers #25022 01/05/11 02:34 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Mr. Young, I would love to see some of your axes, particularly medieval examples. I have a keen interest in medieval tools and otherwise old tools, particularly axes, and would love to have such a collection of my own some day. I doubt I could spare the money for your replicas right now, but some day perhaps...


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Re: Forum Lurkers #25024 01/05/11 02:36 AM
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Hello everyone tonight:

I worked for a number of years under the direction of one of the best Historical achitects in Canada Mr. Peter John Stokes, I am just throwing this in because I am sure that Peter had never laid a hand on a broad axe but could visualize the resulting finishes that he required.

He amassed this information from not only education alone but from crawling around getting dirty and examining many period structures. He was an expert at opening up a wall or ceiling and then sketching freehand drawings (to scale) for you to work from that never seemed to contain any irregular measurements

I suggest that any one of you guys that have some unemployed time to spare keep amassing knowledge about what ever you are interested in, it will come in handy some day.

For instance I restored a 1784 period wooden Garrison Carriage about 20 years ago not realizing that the knowledge that I gained at that time would come in handy now once more

If you want to honestly build your own timberframe home examine many and work out all to logistics and costs. you might even hew the timbers at another site and frame them closer to your residence.

You may even give up the idea and go in a very new direction, keep your mind open to new ideas, and don't let the modern world rule, but use it to your gain.

Good luck

NH

Re: Forum Lurkers [Re: Andrew Young] #25053 01/07/11 03:39 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Andrew Young

First of all, TF is still seen as a artsy-craftsy curiosity by many home owners who also have limited pocketbooks, especially now. Many people like the craft, but its not a cheap approach so this does limit who can afford it.


Andrew, I look at your words here and can almost mistake them for my own! This is the very issue that I have devoted a considerable amount of time and research into solving. I thinking the biggest stumblingblock here is our own mindset. Timber framing is seen as an artsy-craftsy style in league with log building and other such, and I think the biggest reason is because that is how timber framers tend to look at it. A timber frame is a work of art. period. John Q. Public isn't gonna live in a work of art. John Q. Public can't afford to live in a work of art. John Q. Public doesn't want to live in a work of art. He wants to live in a nice, clean, normal American home. It may seem dull and perhaps even a bit depressing, but the fact is it is true.

Perhaps we should create a whole new category of home building that fits nicely somewhere in between the stick frame and the timber frame. For now we will just call this the joined frame. What I have in mind here is a system that is designed from the ground up with the intention of making the timber frame accessible to everyone. A way of not just saying that everyone should build timber frames, but actually making it possible.

I have a system that I think will work, but I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag just yet. I assure you that these forums will be the first place I make it known. There are still lots of issues to be worked out, and I am sure you will find even more. But I think that this will work.

These homes are designed to be permanent. They are designed to last, and to retain their value. Their biggest purpose for existing is to eliminate the wastes created by our horrendously inferior modern homes. They are also designed so that they can be built entirely of local materials with minimal impact. It It is also designed to work well with natural or modern enclosure methods. You might infill with brick, loam, or even stone. Or maybe instead you will enclose it with foam and fill the cavities with cellulose or fiberglass.

This system has taken a lot from many different sources. It has taken inspiration from the American TF revival, from the green building movement, from European traditions and innovations, and has even taken some inspiration from modern methods. It is really a total rethinking of things in many ways, but at the same times is in many ways a return to much older practices.

My wish is this, that others might do the same thing. Take a look at what you have and find out how to use it. The World is an endless source of inspiration; there are traditions all over that we can learn from. Start with a clear goal in mind, not just a distant wish upon some unseen star, and go for it with all you have. If we do this, we can change things in a good way. We can sit back and complain about things all day long, but we are foolish if at the same time we do nothing about it. The only way positive change is ever going to happen is if someone actually starts it, and if someone brings out an idea that doesn't seem 'flaky' or weird. Something that the average American will be comfortable with. This may mean making a few compromises, but perhaps that's what we must do, and slowly introduce people to the better way.

Last edited by D L Bahler; 01/07/11 03:40 AM.

Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: Forum Lurkers #25124 01/11/11 02:21 AM
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Andrew Young Offline
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Sure DL. I will post some on my website and upload here I guess.

Bug me if I dont get to it in the next week. Im up to my ears in a kitchen make-over at the moment.

Re: Forum Lurkers #25165 01/13/11 11:33 PM
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