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Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25560 02/21/11 12:51 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Well DL thanks for coming on board with more good choices for mallets, I had no idea about some of the suggestions, but all are good in my book!

The second part to your thread is very interesting and I would like to tell you a story that might answer some of the questions you are asking.

To begin I would like to travel back a few years--At UCV when all the Historic buildings were reconstructed,(about 1960) part of the work on each building was to reconstruct the window
sash(es). Good C select pine was used for the work and as the years rolled by about every 10 to 12 years nearly all had to be reconstructed eventho they were well taken care of and painted etc it was a yearly maintenance headache.

Now to expand on this my father about 1946 built a new barn and from the pine logs on the property, he had constructed 6 light sash for the barn at a local sash and door factory--that is now 64 years ago. These sash are still in use and going strong.

I put this question to some experts in the field, and their reply was that the use of mill run pine (heart wood) and the yearly White washing with lime and no exterior paint, lead to their longevity--the lime actually kept the rot at bay, and the bare wood could take the weathering.

I hope this information finds its way to the restoration experts manual because it sure works wonders, and I hope it answersyour questions

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25561 02/21/11 01:40 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Thanks for the response, certainly actual experience is more valuable than saying 'yes, I believe it works'

I know that paint can work well for a few years, but after that it can make matters worse by holding the water against the wood and not letting it evaporate. Even if it is good and fresh on the outside, if there is any separation between paint and wood (even a microscopic one) than it makes things worse rather than protecting.

With this in mind, I shall be sure and whitewash or at least lime wash my wood.

One question, was the whitewashing interior and exterior?


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25577 02/22/11 02:14 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Hi again DL, no the whitewashing was strictly on the interior.

The sash were primed and painted in the beginning so the exterrior of the sash did start out painted, I remember helping my father in the light of a kerosine lanern puttying and installing the glass, nearly 70 years ago now.

The sash up in the hay mows though did not receive any whitewash, and were never repainted, they are still there and in pretty good shape today.

It always amazed me that in 1960 during the reconstruction of UCV,s historic stuctures, the historic architect could still find examples of original trim in the area, which at that time would have been well over 100 years of age.

Each building had its own unique trim style, and to reconstruct it faithfully a set of shaper blades had to be hand crafted to create new sections. The window muttons were a good example each alittle different in some way. The trim around the edge of the roof was another, in some cases there were 5 or 6 complete runs of trim to create the roof edges.

Another characteristic was the chimney styles, and the size and colour of the bricks or stone whatever the case might have been

Once again enjoy everyone

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25591 02/22/11 06:35 PM
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D L Bahler Offline
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One thing I guess I don't understand, how does whitewash on the interior protect from rot?


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25599 02/23/11 02:31 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Hi DL

Well the whitewash is lime and water mixture a good disinfectant and will kill bacteria, so--lets review a bit

On the interior of a barn which has a high moisture content and in most cases the walls being not insulated will sweat.

Now remember the windows are single pane glass which in cold weather will collect frost an inch thick on cold days, then along comes a warm spell and everything is wet

This barn had no fans for about 45 years of its life and saw many of these wet cycles, but every year the interior was whitewashed early each spring

I was told by the experts, that it was due to these yearly whitewashing cycles that the funguses were not given the chance to create rot

I hope this answers your question

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25625 02/24/11 04:27 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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So you posit that the problem of rotting out of windows originates with the interior moisture?

I am wondering about all of this because of a wall system I am working on. see here for details: http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25255&page=3


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25689 02/27/11 01:48 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Hi DL

Just to summarize just alittle further

Remember that we are talking about a dairy barn not a house--very different situations, normally homes do not have high interior moisture content so no interior rotting would take place--these sash would look excellent on the inside, but the outside or exterior surfaces would be the one that would rot from moisture.

Even painted the esterior surfaces would be suseptible if the paint layers cracked and allowed moisture to get trapped underneath, in this case the sash would last alot longer without paint just bare wood

take the case of wood shingles, they actually never rot but wear away from the friction of the water running and dripping from row to row.

horizontal or vertical wood siding is another example better left bare, not so niceto look at but weather hardy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25690 02/27/11 02:55 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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NH, I see what you mean. I was not thinking about the dairy barn application in contrast to a home.

Perhaps if we humans lived in stalls like cows there might be higher moisture content in our homes? But fortunately we like to discard our waste immediately.

Europeans seem to universally paint their timbers when a buildings is infilled, might this have to do more with the tendency of the interface between wood and infill to hold moisture to the wood?


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25694 02/27/11 07:11 PM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Hello,

It wasn't that long ago that people lived in open spaces adjoining the stall.

Here where I'm living, right now on these winter days, moisture collects and condenses and at times drips down the window panes and the wood becomes wet.

So the painter will overlap the glass by a millimeter giving a bridge to shed the water. Then the problem becomes the carpenter's who will make troughs and profiles and openings to guide the water outside. Maybe there are better solutions.

The inside edges of a window sash with its munitions are profiled in order to shed this water. Even the Shakers who mostly avoided superfluous profiling knew the function it served on windows. Personally I learnt about it when I built my work shop. In an effort at simplicity I left the inside window edges angular and then watched water pool there on those flat surfaces.

The joinery techniques for windows can also be specifically adapted, using draw-boarding and avoiding glue which creates a vapor barrier and using bridle joints where they can be used at the bottom corners in place of mortise and tenon will facilitate moisture exchange.

That moisture is always there and comes mostly from the people (or other sentient beings) who are in the rooms. It will migrate to the coolest surfaces which in rooms with single glazing will be the windows. This can be an advantage because otherwise those cool surfaces might just be somewhere, as the writer DL Bahler points out, like where the timbers come up against the infill or the window jam meets the brick or other inaccessible places. When these are covered with the wrong paints or sealed with a polymer the moisture accumulates, when the temperature gets right bacteria and insects get active and damage the wood which can eventually need to be fixed.

No, I don't think a limewash will solve all the problems though it has its place and I also think that certain approaches to fixing perceived problems maybe lead to their own inherent disadvantages. Could be a conceptual problem instead of false action.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: historic hewing questionnaire #25718 03/01/11 12:53 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Thanks Don for the comments----- an engineer told me one time that it takes views from all angles to figure out the best approach to any problem------

In my latest project I had to drill holes through the sides of the Wooden Garrison Carriage for 1" bolts to pass through, these sides run at angles to one another (not parallel. These timbers were 6" in thickness and were about 36" apart.

For the sake of others looking in what kind of a proceedure would you use to ensure that the holes were straight enough so that the !" threaded rods would pass through unhindered from side to side. They also passed through a channel in a 6" timber spanner that held the sides at a proper width and could be really tight.

I have many years experience but found this quite challenging considering the tools that I have which was a 1/2" drill and a 16" ship auger.

I would like to consider the solution using the tools that i have which would probably be in line with what most people have in their arsenal

NH

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