Dave, part of the reason I want to avoid using saws is because these timbers are for a special project which calls for methods to be as traditional as I can manage along the whole project.

And before you ask, yes blackpowder is a traditional material used in times past to split oversized timber, possibly as far back as the 1500s.

If I were making these timbers for a project I aimed to make money on, I would certainly saw the logs. But these are for a project where historic methods are a priority.

It is possible, however, that I might hew 'doubles', where two finished timbers are cut from a single hewn timber, so for example if I desired 8x8 timbers I would hew a single 8x16 and then saw it in half.

It is also important to note that a good amount of this wood may end up used for instructional purposes, in which case having it sawn would be unsuitable.

I hope I have made my reasons for not wanting it sawn clear.

There is a method of splitting out logs with an axe, even when the grain is contrary. It involves cuting a deep v'd groove all the way down the length of the log, and then chopping at the center of the groove. This allows for a slow, controlled split. With this method, it is possible to split out beveled boards from a tree without continuously halving the wood. The theory beind this is that instead of allowing the split to follow the natural lines of weakness in the wood grain, you create a greater line of weakness that the split will then tend toward. This is a method that would have been employed 100 years ago by the builders of the great Norse longships.

DLB

I often find traditional ways having benefits not realized until after the fact. Peg making is a good example. Riving out pegs and shaving them on a shaving horse yields a better peg than one sawn and turned or sawn many times on a table saw jig. There are slight imperfection which highlight the methods used, which a trained eye can detect. The vast majority of people will never know the difference, but the builder knows.

I once heard Jack Sobon say when things get tough you may just have to pull out a modern card, specifically the chainsaw. I would encourage DLB to continue on the path he has chosen. Our ancestors lived a very different life than we do. Our minds are corrupted by a different technology. We eat different foods, have a different "drive" to a means, we are a different people. If it you come across a hurdle that is a little to high, you may have to cut it down to a more manageable height.

DLB, I can fully understand that you are trying to follow a historically relevant path. Now that I know that, I won't mention sawing again.

Tim, I try to use my hand tools as much as possible working on these two barns, but sometimes I just have to admit that making a couple of long rips with the Big Mak is more cost effective than chopping out a 4' long scarf.

Not only that, Tim, but for this particular project, the process itself is a very important part. In other words, there are a lot of things being done on this project in a certain way largely just to do them that way. The building was designed with geometry, not just for the theoretical benefits of geometry, but for the sake of going through the process. The timbers are hand hewn not just for the theoretical benefits of hewing or for the appearance, but for the sake of hand hewing. The joinery is all hand cut using only hand tools, not for any practical purpose but for the sake of doing it. The actual process itself is something to be enjoyed.

Folks in America today are all about the end product, and the process needs to be made as quick and easy as possible to get to the end product as quickly as possible. But the process itself is something that can, and should be, enjoyed. I am not choosing my methods for this project out of ease and faster results, but out of a sense of history and enjoyment.

In a business setting, we can't always do that. But I still think most of us are too quick to look for the fastest way to get something done. A lot of our 'speedy results' tools end up not making much sense economically, but our 'instant results' mindset convinces us that they are the way to go.

So in conclusion, unless someone has reason to suggest that black powder would be too risky as far as damaging the wood, I will be using this method. Of course, I plan to do some experimenting on some other wood first to study the affects of the explosion on the wood and its integrity.

Should black powder prove unsuitable, my next preference would be manually splitting out large wedges with an axe. You can see why I prefer black powder....

Should the grain prove too contrary to be used for riven timber, the logs will go to the mill and might be used for siding, floorboards, and general lumber and timber.

DLB

I went out this afternoon after work and measured the trees to get an idea of what I would be dealing with, and how much timber I would get. I found out 2 things.
1: I slightly overestimated the size of the trees, the average size is right at 3 feet, with the biggest being 4 1/2 feet in diameter.
2: There are more trees than I had thought. I at first said 5 or 6 dead standing, there are 9.

Overall, the grain quality seems to be excellent. There is one tree that seems like it may have a slight spiral grain to it. If so, that is not necessarily a bad thing, I can use it for siding boards or floorboards, or other such.

There are 2 trees that I am concerned may have some rot in the heart, however I do not think if there is any it would be extensive enough to cause the wood to be totally useless. There is only 1 tree that I found any signs that a squirrel might have been living in it.

One tree has branches on the ground that had been torn off by storm, one was split in half and so I measured it, it measured 3 feet across... From this particular tree, there is a ton of wood just from downed branches, which themselves are the size of very large trees.

I took some pictures as well, and here are a few of them (there are quite a bit more for my records)

The biggest one, with a girth of 14 feet at about shoulder high
The 3 foot branch, which has 3 clear 8 foot sections.
a shot of some of the branches for this big one.
half a trunk... This is what most of them look about like.


the only one that's not straight.
Most of them are in good shape, this one seems to have been dead for longer. The bark is mostly gone and the sapwood is about rotted away. Something tried to claw through it but found the heartwood to be much to tough! You can see pretty good how straight the grain is hear, since it has some cracks on the outside.
Here is one of their living neighbors. This tree has a diameter of about 4 feet. There are many more trees like this in this particular woods, but the live ones are going to stay alive, I am only taking the dead ones for now.

There is in addition to the white oak a number of red oak, ash, hickory, and some smaller sycamore and soft maple that are also dead or near to it. Most are in good shape. But I haven't even bothered with them yet...

Are you going to cut them down and up with an axe?

I am going to cut them down with a chainsaw.

If I had a crosscut big enough for these, I would like to use it. But I don't. I decided that felling the trees with a chainsaw is one bit of modern convenience I will take. In no small part because I am scared to death of these monster trees, which way somewhere in the order of tons. If they were to fall on me, there would be no more me.

My thought is that the felling process has very little affect if any on the outcome of the finished product.

If I were to mill these timbers, and then 'finish hew' them, that would have an affect. As it is, the timbers yielded are likely going to be a bit wavy, which is exactly what I want. Rather than have perfectly straight mill run timbers, I am going to have some crooked natural timbers, excellent stock for scribing but useless for mill or square rule.

I am looking forward to the loud, thunderous impact of these logs when they fall to the ground. No tree I have ever cut down will compare!

DLB

Aw C'mon. Now you're contradicting what you wrote earlier. What happened to being faithful to the original way...
...Just busting your chops. Don't blame you one bit. Chopping down a partially dry oak with an axe doesn't sound like much fun, more like a very exhausting job.

Exhausting is one thing. A very valid thing I might add.

What gets me the most, however, is the death factor.

Chopping down a mature tree with an axe -talking maybe 20 inches here- can be very very dangerous. It is a lot harder to control the fall with an axe than it is with a saw kerf and wedges. Add to that that I don't have a whole lot of experience felling with axes. When cutting down a 55 inch or so tree, it seems like it is just not worth the risk.

Add to that that in order to fell a tree with an axe, you need to cut a higher stump than you would do with a saw, where you can cut the tree off right at the ground. I need to squeeze every inch of length out of these that I can get, because in some cases I am afraid the top several feet may be significantly damaged and split since they were in fact killed by a tornado.

As Tim pointed out, some times we do have to pull out the modern card. We have to draw a line somewhere. Here, the line is drawn for 2 reasons. Sawing the tree with a chainsaw will be dangerous enough, and these trees are not worth my life. Log length is crucial, saving a foot of length or even more by using a chainsaw is definitely worth it.

But I may use my axe to remove the root flare around the base of the trees.. They are about twice as wide at the very bottom as they are at chest height.

After measuring the trees and doing some figuring and so forth, a couple of them will probably end up going to the mill for lumber. In particular there are 2 (at first I thought there was only 1, but after reviewing my pictures there are 2) trees with some degree of spiral grain. I can't get suitable riven timbers from these, so they are getting shipped off to the mill (Or, maybe, the mill is going to come to them)

That's all for now, guet nacht...

DLB

Just be extra careful working with dead wood, it's easy to barber chair.
And my experience splitting dead chestnut into rails is sometimes you walk the wedges pretty much as usual and sometimes it pops violently when you think the first or second wedge is only half driven. Though your trees aren't nearly as dead as blight killed chestnut.