First set of drawing, regarding some specifics of the 'Riegelbau' sub-style of the German "Fachwerk"


direct link: http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff345/HiddenOrder/scan0003.jpg
At the top is a detail of the floor framing. Note:
'Band' would be roughly equivalent to a 'plate' in American framing. Another word for this in German is Rähm, the word 'Band' it would seem is the word common among the Swiss, whereas Raehm would be used in Germany.
A literal translation of the word 'Band' could be 'tie', but do not confuse it with the tie beam in American framing, which serves an entirely different function.

The plate for the side walls are joined into the end plate, which sticks out past quite a bit, perhaps several feet, but in other cases maybe 12 or 10". The joint used here is a simple dropped in dovetail, which sets only about 1" into the end plate, and is about half the height of the beam.

The joists are set into the side wall plates with a special joint, which I don't really know just how to classify. The joist passes through the plate, reduced to half its height. everything else is better learned by studying the drawing.

Also shown are cross section of the 3 different kinds of posts used. The 'Eckständer' or corner post, with it's cutout inside corner. The regular square post, and the 'Bundständer that stands where 2 walls come together, with extra size to stand to the extra forces inherent in such a location.

Hi- very interesting conversation. Thanks for sharing your work on this DL.

One of my earliest exposures to timber framing was being allowed to work a summer for my uncle in Rothenburg o.d.t. (southern Baden Wurttemburg) conserving old frames there, ca 1982. I was a complete novice but managed to learn a few things through osmosis.
In Jan. 2004 I spent a month in Rottweil, via the TFG, studying at the carpenter's school there. It was like coming home.

One of the things I recall learning about the evolution of German close studded frame style was that the German carpenters I worked with and learned from were sure the style developed partly to facilitate easier handling and raising in crowded village conditions. Maneuvering large timbers through town and up multiple stories was not fun, so they figured out ways to make their lives easier. As my uncle said, "we need to save time at the end of the day for beer" (though one of my primary jobs was fetching beet for morning break and lunch for the crew..)

In Rottweil, one of the carpenters there relayed an old rule of thumb turned into a saying. I'll paraphrase: "travelling long distances is to be avoided, whether it's with mothers-in-law or loads". This by way of explanation for German leaning studs, which very effectively pass wind loads to sills. North American frames, by virtue of knee braces, require the wind load to pass all the way across the frame before a brace goes in to compression, where it puts a moment on the post. It works, but is less structurally efficient.

It was also in Rottweil that I was exposed to a book called "Das Bauernhaus in Deutschland". I managed to get my hands on a reference copy from the Wisconsin library system and copied a bunch of it. It appears to be one of a series of 3: the other 2 are from Osterreich and Schweiz. Originally published in 1903 it documented thoroughly many, many ancient frames from across Germany. Many of these are gone now. If you can find this book I think you'd enjoy it.

Thanks for your insight, dovetail.

I would love to have the experiences that you had! I have to ask, do you have pictures? If so I would love to see them.

DL- I have a few photos: digital from Rottweil and a few old analog from Rothenburg. Paper copies of "Das Bauernhaus".
Do you have a particular interest?

yes, German framing! haha

In particular, anything that would show joinery details. Also anything that gives details on dimensions and spacings.

I know these maters vary from region to region, and I am interested in seeing just how

I also enjoy looking at pictures of the beautiful Fachwrkhäuser, but that is not a priority at all.

Thanks,
DLB

My understanding for the historic reasons of the American vernacular frame were that it was related to the size of timbers available. Over-foresting in Europe had led to smaller trees and a shortage of very long timbers. Furthermore, (in the UK at least) the navy co-opted all long timbers for mast production and oak for boat building.

The European short-timbered style was a consequence of the available wood (see old cruck-framed buildings for examples of the frames using longer timbers) more than any chosen "style".

Just my take as a Brit, living in France.

Jon, travel to Switzerland or Southern Germany and examine this statement. (This being the region where this style of framing was developed) See such wonders as the Black Forest, or the great alpine forests with their impressive timber. In other parts of Europe deforestation was a huge reality, but in these places it has never occurred. My family comes from the village of Wattenwil in Canton Bern, 48.5% of the district of Wattenwil is forested, compared to only 7.4% which is settled and 42.2% which is farmed. Wattenwil lies at the end of the Gürbetal (a valley) at the foot of the alps, not far from the city of Thun. The situation here is far different than in England.

Also consider the fact that Switzerland has no navy, and most of Germany's regions historically had no navy, all being landlocked.

Rather, German short timbered style developed for the reasons dovetail pointed out, they figured out it was a much more efficient way of doing things, and a better use of their resources. My research has led me to the conclusion that short/small timbering spread to Europe from the Germans, and they adopted it for the reasons you bring out, but that was not the cause of its origins.

Swiss historians that I have read state that the younger Rähmbauweise developed in Switzerland as a cheaper alternative to the then prevalent style of stone building.

DLB

Apologies. I was new to the forum and failed to notice the four pages of existing posts, thinking that there were no replies. (I've now found the flat mode).

Interesting bit of history though. I'll read through the thread in full. I'm aware that German forests are now thriving, but I wasn't aware that it wasn't solely due to management, but they that were never so extensively deforested. I lived for four years in Scotland where the forests are heavily managed, but the historical deforestation was so extensive that large parts of the country are now essentially barren!

Jon

I don't know how it is in northern Germany and especially he coastal areas, but in the south and in Switzerland there have always been extensive, healthy forests. None of these forests have any old growth, but they have been continually managed in some cases for thousands of years. The continual existence of forests in these regions is probably due largely to the rural, agrarian nature of the people here, and the fact they are far inland away from any naval center.

DLB