I'm acquiring the tools of the trade and it's high time for a quality cross-cut saw - preferably something which can be sharpened rather than replaced. What should I be looking into?

Any recommendations are welcome -

Thanks - Jacob

My favorite, sharpenable, saw. Simons, Docking Saw....

http://www.galootapalooza.org/docker/docking.html

What I use most, now.

http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2/Silkys-BIGBOY-360mm-Med-Teeth-Hand-Saw

For speed, the Japanese style hand saws work nicely.

Our ancestors would often times not have used the one handed panel saws for this purpose, instead they would have used either the large 2 man crosscut (or a one man version) or a frame saw. Both of these have benefits which allow you to cut through a timber in a hurry, especially the fact that both of these types of saws in the past tended to cut on both the push and the pull stroke.

A good frame saw, or buck saw, really can't be beat. It would certainly be worth looking into. And if you have a helper, using a good old 2 man crosscut in good condition is going to be the fastest way.

What's most important on these saws is: how sharp the teeth are (dull teeth obviously cut poorly) the set on the teeth (too narrow, you bind up a lot, too wide and you're not gonna cut cleanly) And the tooth pattern (different patters for different wood)

The frame saws for this purpose have teeth in a crosscut-style pattern, rather than the triangular teeth of the panel saw.

I know this is not what you asked for, but a lot of TF'ers like the Stanley Sharptooth 26 inch saw. It's in the $25-$30 range, So I'd consider it disposable, but boy it cuts well and is nice to use. It starts a kerf easily. It's a quality saw, but I don't know that it's worth trying to sharpen at that price, plus the teeth are set together such that I'm not sure it would be very straight forward to sharpen.

That's the saw I use, I really like them. It's unfortunate that they can't be sharpened, but that is the trade off for the performance of that tooth style. I'd like to try a docking saw like Tim has someday. I could always tell when he was using it at the Geo workshop, it has it's own unique sound.

I still keep a sharp Stanley in my saw box for odd work where the pull saw is not ideal. But when the SHTF and disposable blades are not found I will still have my docking saw, provided I have files to sharpen it with. Could always use an axe, one can do a lot with a simple axe.

It was at the Geo workshop where I was persuaded to search out the pull saw. Someone had a a big black one.

I just find I don't get the use out of the Stanley as I do with the pull saw. After some use it starts to wonder and bind in the cut. I also have found with the pull saw if someone else used it, I can tell it is not cutting as well, I try to keep my red saw as a "I am the only one to use it saw". I found the tip snapped off once, and another time found someone pushing it instead of pulling it, which I am sure is not good for it either. Any saw should not be forced, let it do the work.

The big black saw was the Silky Katana Boy. It cuts like a chain saw, but it's little bit pricey. I don't use it for everything, and I have no regrets.

And there are lots of Japanese saws that are re-sharpenable, but you'd have to order one from a reputable place. There's also a lot less information available on sharpening Japanese saw teeth. For 8x8 probably around 360 or 390 mm long. If you want one, I'd call Hida tool in Berkeley. I'd guess that they would start around $100-150.

Hello,

The metaphor of the chain saw is a good one. This is a pruning saw.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Let's see....

prune
verb
1 I pruned the roses cut back, trim, thin, pinch back, clip, shear, top, dock.
2 prune lateral shoots of wisteria cut off, lop (off), chop off, clip, snip (off), nip off, dock.
3 staff numbers have been pruned reduce, cut (back/down), pare (down), slim down, make reductions in, make cutbacks in, trim, decrease, diminish, downsize, ax, shrink; informal slash. antonym increase.

Fits the description rather well......

With this talk of chainsaws, it should be noted:
With a (very) steady hand, and a good deal of confidence, a chainsaw is an excellent choice for cutting timbers to length. However, you have to have a TON of confidence in your ability to handle one (and actually have said ability) Too often I find it is a lack of confidence, i.e. fear, that causes us to fail in such tasks. We are just convinced that if we use a chainsaw we will mess things up. and so we do. Our actions follow our expectations.

And as I said earlier, the two man saw would have been our ancestors choice for cutting to length, and the large frame saw the choice for cutting mortise shoulders.

Now, allow me to go way out on a limb here and reveal a simple yet oft overlooked fact. For timber framing, a saw is 100% unnecessary.
There are many traditions where they were never used for these tasks at all, or if they were used it was viewed as a sign of poor craftsmanship or inadequate ability. The "real" carpenter in these cultures would do all of his shaping with his trusty axe.
But for us, it may be better to stick to the saw for some purposes. If you aren't really really skilled with an axe, and don't have great coordination, the saw is a more reliable way to do it. With skill however, the axe can be faster and just as precise (if not more so). Once again, I think fear limits our ability with this tool, which requires you to be brave and confident in your work.

Just a ramble, a bit off topic but perhaps useful.

DLB

If I can split a pencil line with the saw, does it matter whether you want to call it a pruning saw? I tend to use it just for end cuts anyways.

I also use a chainsaw for end cuts quite often. The electric chainsaws are a little easier to handle because they're lower RPM and lighter.

I haven't tried to use an axe for a finished cut, but I use it all the time for roughing out housings, scarfs, lap joints, and tenons.

Hello,

But still, it's a pruning saw.

To be honest, I am still scared to cut finish cuts with an axe. Something about it terrifies me. I have done it before, so I know it works and I know I can do it. But still, it makes me nervous. A good practice I have found is to rough out with an axe, and finish with a mallet-driven chisel or a large slick. For this purpose, I like to use my German Stichaxt.

An electric saw would be especially nice when working indoors. I don't like what 2-cycle fumes do to me!

It is interesting to see in tasks like this how different people and especially different traditions solved the same problems.

I've used a folding pruning saw for cutting roofs boards to length. When I am 30+ ft up on the air on top of a barn, it is often easier to use one that folds up in your tool pouch instead of a corded or uncorded saw which often slides down the roof pitch.

I lust after the Sliky Katana Boy!!

Rooster

To be clear on the accusatory "pruning" saw, the saw I use is not a pruning saw. The teeth are in a flat line. A pruning saw will more likely have a crescent shape to the blade. By the way, just the opposite that of the Docking Saw which has a belly in the blade.

On the Silky brochure there are icons showing the area of use, the pruning saws have tree icons, the construction saws have a construction icon, I think it is a bull dozer. The folding saw I use is listed under the construction use category not forestry. This leads me to see its intended use to fall into the construction area.

I was once questioned why I use the docking saw because it has a belly in the blade and for sure could not cut a flat cut. Ah, you must be thinking in lines of a chain saw, I said, for it cuts a nice flat cut. This of course would not be the case with a pruning saw with the crescent curve to the blade.

If I was cutting a shoulder with an axe I would leave room to prune with the pruning chisel, to clean it up nice.

Tim,

I like a belly to my chainsaw blade, rather than a flat one. I like a belly to my crosscut. I like a convex curve to my drawknife, and I like a curve to my axe heads.
The reason, is because if you want to cut a straight line, you should use a curved tool. If you want to cut a curved profile, you should use a flat tool. My carving drawknife I use for making bows is flat, which makes shaving a curved radius a lot easier. My big shingle knife is curved, which makes it easier to carve things flat.

Even so, the belly of a saw makes it easier to get a flat-bottomed cut, otherwise you tend to get a high middle. When I use a chainsaw, I pull it through the cut, rather than going straight down. This in combination with the slight curve of the bar creates a flat bottom.

When I use an axe, I pull the axe slightly toward me as a slice (not chop). With a carved bit, this creates nice straight lines. With a flat bit this does little good.

I also use a chisel to clean up axe-cut joints. However, my understanding is that a really good axe wielding carpenter does not need to do this. But I'm not so skilled, so I like to try and leave somewhere in the range of a good 1/8" or so to make a nice clean face with the Stichaxt, or with chisel. Often times my good 1/8" ends up more of a good 1/4".
It should also be said that a felling axe is not the proper tool for this job. You need to use an axe with a flat side, like a small broadaxe. The Gransfors 1900 works well, and the carpenters axes of the German tradition do as well, since this is precisely what they are designed for. The two are almost exactly the same thing. I use my 1900 not for hewing, but for joinery and carving.

just so you know what I am talking about, here is a Gransfors 1900 compared to a German carpenter's axe.


DLB

The Sharptooth is perfectly flat, and will make a flat shoulder cut. I actually use this attribute to ensure that I have cut all the way across the shoulder from line to line. I can appreciate the belly on a saw as well, but wouldn't prefer it for the shoulder cuts.

Dave, the belly on the docking saw may just be a little added insurance ensuring the shoulder cut is definitely cut deep enough. Nothing worse than getting down to the shoulder/cheek corner and finding it is not cut deep enough. A few short strokes at the end are just, nice. The belly really is not that much across an 8" or 10" wide timber.

To see the sharptooth saw in action, check out my new video on youtube!

http://youtu.be/UfNHXdDUPeU

Hello,

So, once again it became time to re-order yet another replacement blade for the saw I keep for more dirty work or all-around use, and having decided that in principle I don't like going through this routine I chose to get a saw for this purpose that could be resharpened.


It has a universal tooth pattern, so meant for both rip and cross cuts. The first 23 teeth from off the heel are in the cross cut pattern and then every 8th tooth is in the rip cut pattern.
Well, I wasn't writing here to contribute a review or recommendation or anything, it's strictly because of the irony of it all - this saw is called by the makers the Proonley. Ha - ha - ha, the last laugh is on me.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

I guess I am really fortunate to have such a supply of antique tools, all my hand tools are pre-1880, when the job allows they are the only ones I'll use.
I luckily inherited a tremendous tool kit, including saw sets and filing guides, which I add to as often as possible. We have cut logs with the 2 man crosscut before the guy could get his c-saw started. For notching the 42" buck saw is my favorite, finer items get the old bow saw treatment.
If using axes only for cuts, using both right and left handed tools will ease the operation.
DLB I totally agree with your statements on curved tools.