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Lost #27101 09/04/11 04:51 PM
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Will Truax Offline OP
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We lost one of the finest historic examples of bridge framing to ever have existed a week ago today -

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2ZKDdGwB-sM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

More information on it and its Bridgewright on a recent entry to my blog - http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/lost-to-evermore/


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Lost #27103 09/04/11 06:57 PM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Hello,

I am curious about the overall strategy going forward after this storm in relation to the material damage. Clearly a lot of historically important and beautiful structures have been damaged and destroyed. What percentage will be repaired and restored and to what degree will this loss be permanent, in that thoroughly new structures i.e. bridges, homes, downtown areas... will take the place of the ones lost?

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Lost #27125 09/06/11 02:29 PM
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frwinks Offline
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This video was in the news last week also.. lower Bartonsville.
Another historic structure claimed by Irene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyO18one8fU


there's a thin line between hobby and mental illness
Re: Lost #27130 09/07/11 12:46 AM
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Housewright Offline
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Don;

Good questions that I cannot answer. I am pessimistic in that apparently many building owners did not have flood insurance and the ongoing, overall economic problems means it will be a long slow process of restorations. Fortunately the pool of talented craftspersons is growing.

Time will tell;
Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: Lost #27131 09/07/11 01:09 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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This raises the question...

What is the official position of the guild regarding this? Is there going to be any formal effort by the guild to help in repair?restoration?


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
http://riegelbau.wordpress.com/
Re: Lost #27134 09/07/11 06:38 AM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Hello,

Thanks Jim, That doesn't sound so optimistic I'm afraid. Together with the story from Craig Roost there, it reminds me of the recently posted topic about attitudes towards historical preservation. I just hope that wonderful old timber doesn't end up being sawn for firewood.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Lost #27135 09/07/11 06:57 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi DLB,

I would have thought that there would be little incentive to repair / restore/ rebuild this bridge since a modern bridge has already been constructed alongside the old bridge relegating the old bridge to being more of a tourist attraction / curiosity.

The sweeping away of the Lower Bartonsville covered bridge in Vermont featured here in England on the national TV news.

Once upon a time England (especially London) had many timber bridges however now rather sadly I cannot think of any that remain. A number of years ago we tried hard to get Oxfordshire County Council to build a new covered timber bridge at the old Bablock Hythe crossing point over the river Thames but eventually this project was kicked into the long grass mainly because there is no longer any real experience of building significant timber bridges in England using this method and there is also an inability to understand and quantify the risks associated with this building method.

Salesmanship is a real talent !

Regards

Ken Hume


Looking back to see the way ahead !
Re: Lost [Re: Ken Hume] #27136 09/07/11 08:09 AM
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Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Quote:
relegating the old bridge to being more of a tourist attraction / curiosity.


Of course the utility of these old bridges is secondary. It is the curiosity factor and the tourism that they attract that is and will be the reason for replacing them.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Lost #27138 09/07/11 11:12 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Ken,
I did not mean specifically for this bridge. I meant for the region in general, as an effort to oversee and educate repairs and restoration of historic structures damaged by this storm.

DLB


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
http://riegelbau.wordpress.com/
Re: Lost #27147 09/08/11 12:57 AM
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Will Truax Offline OP
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Not sure why the embed failed? It is worth a watch particularly if you never made the pilgrimage - http://t.co/BgJCx1F

Don – It's still too soon to be able to answer your questions, things have now moved on past triage, repairs of roads is ongoing. Damaged bridges are being fast-tracked to return them to service, all the same, that begins with, quantifying what's broke and how much to patch it, or fix it...

Tripping to damaged and lost bridges for stabilization's and assessments drove home how severe the devastation is, as those roads with either, passed lost homes or villages – 125+ Homes lost, maybe 600+ left unlivable, still don't have a real number for bridges.

And I don't see the utility as secondary, superior service life says otherwise. IMO tourism is secondary.

Ken – Unlike Bartonsville, as you guessed, there is no talk of replicating Blenheim. That might be because so much more was lost there, and there are more demanding things to wonder after. Might be because, it is truly irreplaceable.

David – The emergency situation and the time crunch it demands, suggests it would be hard to coordinate this as a teaching exercise. At the same time, there will be experience to be found as result of all this, which is the only upside I see to any of it.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

1285 bridges were lost to Vermont's '27 Flood, ironically, more would have been lost with this one, had spotty happenstance not taken so many then.

Days of blue sky followed the storm, hard rain the last two, there's a flood watch in southern Vermont just now. A good rain, but I don't expect any streams to spill their banks. Hope'n it's maybe a good thing, and it will help settle erosion. Every lost bridge I visited, washed away, not because it floated off its abutments, but because one of its abutments went out from under it. That including Bartonsville. (itself a replacement for a bridge lost to flooding) I dropped into unseen undermined holes at bridges only damaged. Other bridges had entire approaches washed away. Again if these rains expose sinkholes and erosion settles before repair begins, that can only be a good thing – The engineering community looks at every natural disaster for lessons learned. The soil side of engineering might be the real lesson to be learned from this event. ie - How do we keep the fines from being washed away from behind dry laid walls – Is it possible to retrofit anything without doing more harm than good? Is new dry-laid an option backed with layers of geotextiles and / or chipped tires – To my mind, the proven service life they've demonstrated demands we ask?




"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Lost #27148 09/08/11 01:18 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Will, what I mean is that perhaps guild members could lend a hand at repairs and what have you, not only of bridges but also of land structures that may have been heavily damaged. By educate, I mean be there and help people to understand what 'repair's to these old bridges will in the end do more harm than good. For those bridges that remain, they are in a dangerous position as well intentioned folks might make faulty repairs, not understanding the dynamics of the old timber bridges.

I do not think 'what can the guild get out of this' but rather, how can our expertise and experience be of use to the people in the whole region in repairing things.

Let's look at a past example to illustrate my point, post WWII Germany, many of the old buildings needed repairs very badly to survive. So they were given repairs, but with modern materials and methods. These were often time 500 year old timber framed structures. In the end, for so many of these structures, faulty repairs ended up destroying them.
Let's learn from this, and when we are faced with recovering from a disaster like this, let's do it right!

I realize not much can be done at this point, but it does take time to plan and organize and what have you. Now might be the time to start thinking about things like this.

I find it somewhat unfortunate that around the time when it might be plausible to do this, I may be leaving the country for an extended period.

DLB


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
http://riegelbau.wordpress.com/
Re: Lost #27149 09/08/11 01:48 AM
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Will Truax Offline OP
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DLB - I think I inferred what you were saying, from what you said. My response was more about, how do we wrap ernest interest and peoples desire to help around the requisites of required insurances and the logistics of needed immediacy?

Funny thing is, I find it somewhat unfortunate that this likely keeps me, from any possibility of playing into the workshop possibility you just announced!


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Lost #27160 09/08/11 10:27 PM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Will, that is unfortunate indeed.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
http://riegelbau.wordpress.com/
Re: Lost #27169 09/10/11 12:02 AM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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My sister sent me this.

Great photos from helicopter of areas in VT:


http://www.mansfieldheliflight.com/flood/


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: Lost #27170 09/10/11 01:36 AM
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Dave Shepard Offline
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I saw that on another site this week. Great photography.


Member, Timber Framers Guild
Re: Lost [Re: Dave Shepard] #29669 09/30/12 02:57 PM
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Will_T Offline
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Still not entirely comfortable with needing to use this new handle, but I thought some here might like an update > wp.me/p1jSbw-eA

There's also a link in here (click on the highlighted underlined text) to a local news story on last years NE Regional Gathering.

Where has another year gone?

Re: Lost [Re: Will_T] #29670 09/30/12 02:58 PM
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Will_T Offline
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Not sure why the shortlink isn't recognized? If interested, C&P it or click on the link in the sig below.

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