I have a question for the professional timber framers here.
How many of you, if any, do your framing work outside, instead of in a large shop building?

I ask this because of my own considerations. Right now I am thinking of switching over to a scribe setup, but I don't have a large space for full scale layouts. I am wanting to make this switch because I am drifting towards using German framing practices, where scribing timbers to each other is really an advantage.

So I wondered, are there any of you out there that do your frame work outside? Or that do your layouts outside? Remember that this was always how it was done in the past.

I'll wait till a few replies before I say too much else on the subject, I'd like to hear what you all think

DLB

Good question. My heated shop is tiny. One timber at a time. I'm seriously thinking about putting up a large fabric cover-all type shelter. Maybe 35 x 60.
They are not heated of course but would keep the snow, rain and sun off the timbers.
I thought a concrete floor would be a bonus for things like scribe work and layout but frost heave would cause cracks in short order with the clay around here.
I'm curious what the folks without large heated shops do. Especially the more northern shops.

I should add one thing,
I have an undeniable preference to working outside, and an undeniable dislike of standing on concrete all day. I've always worked outside, and I like it that way.

I know the weather can sometimes be a problem, but hey I guess I'm used to it

I will play along. The weather is mentioned, of the big three, I find the sun the be the most brutal, snow next, rain coming in third. Sun will sap the energy right out of me. Cloudy days are most beautiful. Rain and rusty tools...... I just don't work in full on rain. Fortunately, it never rains all the time, here.

I am about to tackle some big wood which won't easily fit back in my mill building where I do most of my joinery, they will be worked outside. Sun this time of the year is a blessing, and snow could blanket the work anytime, and most likely it would be the slushy kind of snow, the worst.

I have worked outside a lot in the past, both scribing and square rule. It's been beautiful and clear this week, and I was cutting outside up until today, when I moved back inside. It's not really hot (upper 70's) but the glare from the sun makes it tough to see the lines.

It can be done and sometimes (weather and season permitting) it is a real pleasure. On the other hand, it can be brutal. In the summer, we would start at first light (around 615-630) and quit at about 230. Just couldn't do more than that.

It's also hard to mark timbers wet from dew. And don't leave any metal on oak timbers overnight -- you'll have a nice ferrous shadow the shape of whatever you left laying there.

When scribing, the biggest hassle is not having a level floor to start from. Leveling everything up takes longer than if you're on a slab. But like I said, it can be done. One thing that can help is strategically placed level sleepers to build the layup on.

I do most of my work in our 60'x104' shop. I don't like being in the direct sun, for the reasons mentioned. I also try to work on other projects when the weather is good, and then hole up for the winter inside. I've got to scribe up the floor for the barn I'm working on now, and it's 45' square. In the summer, I'd do it outside, but I think I'll have to make room for it inside somehow this winter.

Traditionally, I think scribed buildings where scribed right on the floor system. I don't suppose there was much framing done inside back when that system was in vogue, so to speak.

I'm going to start off by saying I don't timberframe full time. I frame part time in the summer, or on a project by project basis. I also don't have a backyard. So all my projects are done on site. Most of the projects I do I am part of the whole building from start to finish. So, I don't have a shop.

Where I work the temperature ranges from -35C to +35C(-31F to 95F). I haven't actually timber framed in weather colder than daytime highs of -15C, I find like any carpentry any colder and you usually need thicker gloves and the loss of tactile sensation in the hands causes work gets slower. I can usually plan my frames to happen in warmer months. As for summer framing, the only issue as far as working conditions is rain. I usually call off work when it is raining. One rainy day I may spring for one of those tent garages.

Another thing to note is how you store timber. Most of the projects I do here are done with white spruce because it is locally available. One of the challenges is how to store the wood. On a hot July day you will spend all day hearing those 8x8's dry, no matter how we tarp, sticker, and shade them. One of my favourite frames was done outside this time of year during a cloudy period. The frame was left rough sawn and cut right off the mill. It was covered and cut with only a day or two of sun so it was one of the whitest frames we have cut.

Good feedback here, all. Now I'll throw out my 2 cents on the matter.

I've worked for many years as a carpenter, mostly doing stick framing. At least here in Indiana, we do everything outside. We frame the walls right in place, and so on. So I am very familiar with the concept of working outside. Like I said earlier, I love working outside.

I am also very familiar with working outside in full sun when it's real hot and VERY humid. We'll have times when it's 100 degrees outside and 80% humidity (any higher humidity means it is currently raining) So I know all about that. With all that in mind, I'd much rather work outside than inside.

And house framing just isn't done around here in the winter. Too cold,and too much snow.

One big huge advantage I can see to working outside is that it can reduce your overhead a lot. You don't have to pay taxes on a big shop, you don't have to pay a big gas and electric bill for temp control, and you don't have thousands of dollars invested in a building large enough to lay out a frame. I think the extra work required to set up a frame on site is offset by the lack of overhead.

Another big advantage I see is mobility. It's expensive to ship a frame to the next town. It's not quite as bad to ship yourself (though hotel costs can raise issues here)

Now I know there are certainly disadvantages. But hey, I don't mind having a day off now and then anyway, there's plenty else I can occupy my time with!

Let's keep the discussion rollin folks, this is a good conversation we got goin here

DLB

DL, a shop does not have to be heated, lighted, or for that mater electrified via the grid. My shop/mill building, 30'x60'x 16' post, the gable ends have aircraft hanger doors across the full 30' allowing easy access of timber, for the most part. With both doors open a bus could be driven through it at 100 miles per hour, a very open space. I built it by my self through a winter, dealing with the snow, here in Maine we do build through the winter, sometimes not by choice. Up to 6 months of the year we have the possibility of snow. I like to play in the snow but working in it is not one of the playing activities, a building is very handy.

As for heating, it doesn't take much. The doors are covered with a clear lexan material allowing sun light in for natural light and solar gain heat, they also block wind which is another important factor, when it comes time to keep the plumb bob from swinging. The 60' wall has 26' of open lexan on it as well letting in much heat and light. I would like to add 3 air craft doors to the side, all covered in the same material. This would allow 3 sides of the building to be fully opened to the air in the warmer times of the year and act as a canopy, extending the buildings foot print. I don't heat it, not even a wood stove in the winter but one does have to dress in layers. You work with the natural lighting as if you were outside. I do run a generator for certain things, and have some lights but they are hardly uses.

I suppose it is part of my Over Head cost, same for material handling, a fork lift and miscellaneous other machines, I feel I would be lost without. All things which make my shop run more efficiently. On site how do you address material handling? Lull? Your back? How does this fit into the cost of a project? Compare these with the ability to easily handle material at your own site/workshop, without the weather factor, and I see the over head you speak of not being a major factor or even becoming more justified, off setting travel cost back and forth to the work site day in and day out in a pickup that gets 15 mpg. In my rural location I have to travel at least an hour each day just to get to most job sites. It is some nice to just open the door of my house and walk across the yard to my work. $150 a week can easily be spent on fuel cost just to cart my carcass to the work site when when site work begins.

I would highly recommend getting yourself a shop, it is 2011 and we have luxuries our counter parts did not have!

I would rather the customer pay a couple of hundred extra bucks to get the completed frame shipped from my location to theirs than sacrifice too much of my day driving to their site and put miles on my truck. In the end, I think that cost is offset by me not having to commute dozens of times to their site and by my increased efficiency when I am in my yard. And when it's farther than daily commuting distance, forget about it -- I can ship 12000 bd ft 200 miles for less than the cost of a couple of weeks of hotel and I like living in my house with my family. I get enough travel raising the frames.

So for me unless it is a very local very small job, I much prefer to work at my yard even if I am working outside at my yard.