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Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: bmike] #27808 12/20/11 12:52 AM
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Kevin Rose Offline OP
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I don't expect any more than 10,000 lbs of weight per bay. Loading it up with hay would be heavier. At the moment, the design is for 100 psf.

Here's my latest thinking:

Floor Joist Layout

On Craig's suggestion (and knowing that it was the way in many old barns), I looked at configurations of sleepers. The part I didn't like, however, was embedding the ends of the sleepers in the concrete. I also wanted to keep the beam size a bit smaller than the sleepers would require. I've ended up (for the moment) with the configuration in the link above. By adding a post to the middle of the central span I can get the loads supported without having to resort to a giant member in the middle of the drive bay. It's been an evolving puzzle. Thanks for your input.


~Kevin Rose
Northern Vermont
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: D L Bahler] #27809 12/20/11 01:02 AM
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Kevin Rose Offline OP
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> It might also be advisable not only to use thick decking, but also run two layers . . .

I plan to run two layers of decking - 5/4 each. I've got a lot of white ash that I've been thinking of sawing up for the top layer of the decking. (The primary species I have to work with are hemlock, maple, ash and cherry. The maple is reserved for sugar and some of the cherry is gonna go into new kitchen cabinets one day.)


~Kevin Rose
Northern Vermont
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Kevin Rose] #27811 12/20/11 02:36 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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White ash works good, a lot of old barns around here have ash in the lofts (which in other areas folks call hay mow)
But if you can find cottonwood, I would highly recommend using it for the top layer.
The advantage of cottonwood is that it is 'spongy' -the fibers in the wood will compress and crush under extreme loads, but will spring back to their normal state. This makes the wood incredibly tough and durable. Old timers made their floors out of cottonwood because it could take a serious beating.
Ash under a crushing load will be crushed, and the fibers destroyed.

I am a big fan also of like you said supporting your floor with a mid-span post.
I am not sure exactly what you are describing, but what I would do is have posts to support a beam upon which the joists merely set, they do not have to be joined at all, here gravity can do ALL the work.
I know this idea works very well, and I can show you examples of castle floors framed in the 12th and 13th centuries like this that are still functioning well to this day under heavy loads.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: D L Bahler] #27812 12/20/11 03:33 AM
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Hey,

It looks like we have a lot of positive input with regards to your floor layout. I would like to clarify a few things about the floor framing that I proposed.

The ends of the main sleepers are merely setting into pockets created in the inside face of the concrete wall, they are not embedded per say. The original layout that this was based off of was from a bank barn that had 24 in.thick mortared feildstone walls for the foundation...which allows for a lot of surface area on top of the wall for the sill beams and the lower tie-beams. I recently looked at a hand hewn barn frame that had two 14 x 16 x 22ft beams in the floor system that carried the load of the joists, and they were both resting in pockets in the stone wall. Another option would be to add a concrete or block column to the inside surface of the wall that would carry the sleepers.

The additional sleeper that supports the midspan of the joists, is there to reduce the span load by 1/2...adding one beam, allows all the joists to be supported where they need it most instead of them just being supported at their ends.

I hope this helps.

Rooster


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Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Craig Roost] #27819 12/21/11 03:11 AM
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Kevin Rose Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Craig Roost
I would like to clarify a few things about the floor framing that I proposed.

The ends of the main sleepers are merely setting into pockets created in the inside face of the concrete wall, they are not embedded per say. . . Another option would be to add a concrete or block column to the inside surface of the wall that would carry the sleepers.

Rooster



Craig,

I'll be laying up the stem walls for the barn in concrete block. I'd thought that the easiest way to support the sleepers would be to build out the wall on the inside of the foundation under the sleepers, as you suggested. I'd want to isolate the timbers from contact with the concrete with a layer of PT between. Seeing old foundations with timber ends drawing moisture from direct contact with the masonry raised my concerns about putting the sleepers directly onto concrete. Did the one that you'd looked at have any moisture problems at the timber ends?


~Kevin Rose
Northern Vermont
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Kevin Rose] #27820 12/21/11 05:29 AM
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Craig Roost Offline
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Kevin,

I would agree that adding a PT block between the sleeper and the concrete block would help with any moisture transfer. The hand hewn beams that I was referencing were White Oak, and I did not see any significant signs of moisture problems. The sill beams of this barn sat directly on a mortared cap of the fieldstone walls. I often find some rot or water damage on many of the barns that I restore. These were built before the advent of pressure treated lumber. You would obviously want your barns to last as long if not longer than those that I have worked on, so I would encourage you to take the appropriate steps to ensure the future of your barn, well after both you and I are gone. My Moto is "Building on the Past for the Future to Hold."

Rooster


Yah-fur-sur, You-betcha, Don't-cha-know!
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Craig Roost] #27824 12/21/11 05:58 PM
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Kevin Rose Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Craig Roost
Kevin,
My Moto is "Building on the Past for the Future to Hold."

Rooster

Craig,

I love that motto!

Thanks for all your feedback. It has really helped me refine plans for a barn that I hope will serve many generations.


~Kevin Rose
Northern Vermont
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: ] #30708 06/08/13 11:44 PM
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Kevin Rose Offline OP
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I, too, have found very little in the way of contemporary barns with timbers on the first floor deck.

Best,
~ Kevin


~Kevin Rose
Northern Vermont
Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Kevin Rose] #30709 06/08/13 11:54 PM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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What would you like to discuss Michael John?

Re: Barn Floor - Joist Layout [Re: Jay White Cloud] #30710 06/09/13 12:51 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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I bet it wants to sell you some paper gold certificates. Or something worse.

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