OK. I'm new to TFRubies (and toying with the idea of buying the book... I just try to avoid having stuff shipped from the US to Europe, especially paper!) and while it's mostly making sense and working out, my first attempt at a scarf joint is failing quite spectacularly. I've put a copy on one of my many sites

(http://hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/Beam-200x250.skp)

I'm fairly sure that I've done everything right. Right clicking on the joint part lists it as "TF ID: Joint", but it doesn't appear to be cutting completely as you can see if you put it up against another copy of itself.

Any suggestions? Do I need to make a "shoulder" for the joint in order for it to be complete?

Thanks in advance for any help provided. I'm looking forward to transferring my design from AC3D (which was OK for visualising it, but rubbish for problem-solving).

I was also trying to figure out this problem months ago, but I gave up. So I just drew both ends separately.

It works perfect like this of course but that doesn't help.

Not sure what a scarf joInt ruby gets you. Typically a scarf is the same on both halves. I've never tried to use a Ruby for a scarf - just draw the 2 timbers with the ends like you need to mate up and do a shop drawing. Better still to do a single component with just the lines and indication of where the scarf should be.

Granted. It's more a case of, if your using a tool to do the joint drawing for you, might as well have it do all of it, not just a bit.

I'll draw them manually then. :-)

You could use long timber that don't require scarves;-) just another jewel I use to avoid sk.

Mike's right - the purpose of the TF Rubies is to automatically create mortises from the tenons you draw. Most scarf joints don't have M&T. But here's an example where the tenon has been split into two "joints", each cutting a thru-mortise in one blade of the scarf:


There are, however, circumstances where the tf rubies can help with non-M&T joints. In this key-lam example, each of the canted keys is actually a pair of "joints' that cut the triangular shaped notch in one of the beams. So if you move the keys around, the notches will follow:

Mmmm... 14m long douglas fir beams. I think the sawmill owner would have an aneurism if I asked for that! :-)



Thanks. I'll just run them manually. It never really occurred to me that it wouldn't be possible and/or as simple as doing the M&T joints. It just means a few more joints to cut in SU.

Thanks all for your help. After a week of banging my head I was beginning to think I was just doing something stupid. And it seems that I was! :-)

Mmmm... 14m long douglas fir beams. I think the sawmill owner would have an aneurism if I asked for that! :-)

Living on the east coast of the US with small trees, in comparison to the west coast and its doug fir, it is very possible to find 46' timber, this sawmill owner would find it a great pleasure to saw such plates. Just running it up the flag pole as a possibility. Perhaps in your part of the world this is not an option. Scarves are something to avoid, if possible. Sorry, for running on.

Here in France, I'm pretty certain that it's not going to happen. Traditional timber framing here is short-span with lots of studs, and it's very common for wall plates to be scarved given that they are exceptionally well supported. I do understand about avoiding scarves where possible, but (as long as my maths is right) they are so heavily over-engineered, that the loss of bending strength simply isn't an issue.

In reality, I don't have the option to work with full-length beams even if I could get them. The site is such that moving them would be a nightmare, and crane access isn't an option so getting them up to roof height would be exciting.

A long timber and a well worked horse, nicely done. And in France? Your part of the woods Jon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAS0AxwpzfQ&feature=related

It is indeed in my neck of the woods (about 30km from where I live). And somewhat irritating as I was looking for that last year. It was a gathering of carpenters who (IIRC) would erect a timber frame using traditional (read medieval) methods. I had been hoping to go as a spectator, but the person who told me about it couldn't remember where it was or who organised it and I never managed to find it. Thanks for the link.

If I can work out how to use the horse to get the timber 7m up in the air, then I'm game to give it shot.

Back in the world of reality, I'm currently investigating a rework of the frame, using hardwood splines and having the beams all joining posts rather than passing over them. This eliminates the scarf issue (both in SU and in the real world). This being my first attempt at such work, simpler is definitely better.

Thanks again for the link. I'll have to watch the rest of the videos. If you've already seen them and need any translations, feel free to PM me.

Hi Jon, here is one thread on gin poles, Craig has a nice system, Jim show some stuff, I rig a little different than both of those example, all the same concept.

Fun reading if nothing else.

My foreign language abilities are non existent but I love the pictures and videos, they say a lot.

I can't seem to find a SketchUp manual in the Guild store. Any help?

In which case (if you haven't already scoured it), you might like:

http://www.charpentiers.culture.fr/delarbrelamaison/lartducharpentier/levage

It demonstrates the use of a "chevre" (a 2-pole gin pole). I had already considered this (and I'm still toying with the idea for getting the ridge beam in place), but I'm more likely to hire a genie superlift (or equivalent). For lifting the frames I have the advantage of a large slope to one side of the plot from the top of which I can attach lifting gear. This will allow the use of pulley blocks to raise the frames directly. In theory, a chevre mounted some distance up the slope would provide me with a crane... once I'm sure that the design for the house is valid, and I can order it all in time, I might come back to alternative lifting methods.

The other videos on the site are equally good. There's a few demonstrations of traditional carpentry techniques, and (from memory) some nice video footage of a treadmill-powered crane lifting large timbers up to the top of a castle.

Hello,

A great deal of open space is not necessarily needed in order to hoist and position timbers of large dimension. It depends more on the proper rigging. We set up once scaffolding with only an electric winch strapped onto it to lift and maneuver 22 x 22 cm x 7 meter long oak beams in a very enclosed back yard in the middle of a small compactly built-up village through narrow streets and small alley ways, sliding them inside the house through a small opening in the roof like threading a needle. It was basically all accomplished by a single pair of hands as well. And it was a lot of fun too.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff