I was wondering how many of you here have a timber framing philosophy. I have been studying timber framing for several years now, and I recently realized that I have developed my own theories about what timber framing means to me and where I think it could go in the future. Many people laugh at me when I mention that I want to purue TF as a career. They think it is outdated and inefficient. I recieve the most resistance from people who don't believe you can build anything without power tools. I feel that a philosophy helps keep me focused in my interest in timber framing, and helps me explain what it is I am trying to do to others. I have actually written a couple of pages on what I feel best describes my philosophy and have been editing it as I become more educated about the craft and realize what my priorities are. I also hope that if I have my ideas clearly outlined that it will help me find someone to work for (which I am hoping will be soon) who has the same timber framing principles. So, am I crazy, or does this make sense?

Dave

No better place than here to post those thoughts.

If there is a group more receptive to philosophy, I do not know what it might be.

Hi Dave,

Lets here more about your timber framing philosophy please.

Regards

Ken Hume

Here is a rough overview in no particular order.

I feel that a timber framed home using materials milled locally, using as many natural materials as possible, (i.e. no vinyl siding, asphalt shingles etc.) is going to provide a building that is superior in many ways. Timber framing does not require kiln drying, surfacing, or transporting materials a great distance. TF can make use of trees that would otherwise be unusable in commercial lumbering practices. A timber framed structure can be built with tools that can be hauled into the woods by one person, in one trip. A well thought out TF home, using local materials, sized to your needs, can be built with less energy, and use less energy to maintain, than current building practices.

Timber framed structures have already proven themselves throughout time, and I see no reason to abandon them now. With rapidly rising energy costs I foresee a greater need for homes that can be built using as little petroleum products as possible. This means using the materials at hand and processing them as little as possible, and moving them the least distance.

As you can see, I am interested in the more traditional approach to timber framing. Building somewhat basic structures that have been designed to fill a specific need. By building a TF of local materials, you can take yourself out of the global supply and demand loop, and have a better control over the outcome of your project, and also keep your hard earned dollars in your local economy. I am not a proponent of pressure treated materials or gooping on chemicals at every opportunity, or building homes that are half windows. (I hope I don't upset people who do build the higher end homes, they are certainly beautiful, I just feel that may not be the most effective use of our energy)

As I stated in the first post, this is an ever evolving philosophy, as I learn more about timber framing I make changes to reflect new ideas. I am actively seeking a career in timber framing and writing down my thoughts and editing them has really helped my decide where I want my focus to be, and where I will draw the line as far as what I would feel comfortable doing in timber framing. I worked breifly for a contractor this summer, however there where too many differences in our view of the work we were doing and it did not work out.

I have my own views, however, I don't feel that my outlook is the only one to take. My ideals certainly don't agree with everyone elses, and I think it is important to maintain the diversity of the craft, even if we all don't agree with every interpretation of it.

Well, that's my long winded "breif overview". I would certainly appreciate some commentary and discussion.

Dave

Dave I feel that your views are a good starting point, and I have built that way myself. It is a satisfying process to go through, but to build a career you may need to go out and visit some existing shops and see how they make ends meet.
You are NOT crazy, the world is crazy, and so to survive in the world you may have to have some "crazy" business practices.

something I've taken on as a philosophy lately is that you are going to pay for your building frame whether you see it or not. So why not put out a bit more and have something you can see and enjoy?

Traditional Carpentry and hand tools are a great way to build. Again, I encourage you to find someone who is already doing something similar and learn from them, even if it means doing some travelling.

Also, I think it's good you have the ability to appreciate all the timber framing methods, How else will you gain respect for your own methods?

dms: I am 100 percent with you on your philosophy. In fact if I did not know better I would think that I wrote that summary on timber framing philosophy. My only weakness to this philosophy is the insulation product choice. It seems that the only flaw with traditional building practies was the lack of a proper insulation layer, leaving the houses cold and sometimes damp and horrbly inefficient. I hate to have to bite it and accept the plastic and chemical insulative materials(sips,ssps,foams,pik stuff,etc...) that serve the all important function of insulation. I still toy with the strawbale alternative but I have not yet studied enough about it to address it now. I have always dreamt of building a beautiful and super efficient home using only natural earth materials. Imagining that if the building were to catch fire or last long enough to rot to the ground, that there would be nothing left on site but the very materials that the earth spewed out. seriously tb

timber brained: I too have the same hang up with the insulation problem. There are some natural materials, but they must be treated with a fire retardant to meet code. I have one friend who is using chopped up blue jeans that comes in batts like fiberglass, but it is treated. I have long thought that you could use a woodmizer and build your entire house with materials from your own woods, from sills to shakes. The only hang up is the insulation.

What does the dark side have to offer Derek?

Thanks for the comments, if anyone has a conflicting viewpint I would love to hear it to provide a little contrast. I am enjoying this discussion.

I have a couple of calls to return in the morning regarding work, fingers crossed.

ok Derek, just to play the "devils advocate" here.
-where does your power come from and how much does it cost?
-what are the costs to that power beyond paying the bill?(pollution of the environment that we and our children all need, using up of non-renewable resourses, etc)
-how can you stand the noise????

and regarding foam, if it is good insulation then is foam saving pollution by using less heat/cooling?

Sorry Derek, I should have figured that from your previous posts, just chatting it up.... keep pounding that chisel!

Dare I ask which finger and in what direction it points? (Toward the heavens, perhaps?)

I am sure Hundeggers have their place, however I think that they represent an entirely different approach to TF than what I would like to experience. You may be able to produce a lot of beautiful frames with one, but are you cheapening the craft in the process? (And I don't mean reduce the cost ) I don't want to knock high production timber framing, it certainly makes a frame house more available to more people. There is certainly enough room for anybody who can produce an honest frame. I like the idea of being able to walk into the woods with a box of tools and produce an entire frame without electricity or complex equipment.

On the insulation point...

I just used cellulose for the first time (both wet and dry). It was local (from Bernardston, MA), recycled (old newspaper), and has a good R-value. I was told it consists entirely of: cellulose, clay (used in the printing), soy-based ink (they pull all the colored stuff out), boric acid (for bugs and fire), and water. R 3.7/inch. I have a very good installer in western MA, if you're interested Dave.

Brad

Brad.
I am interested in how and where you used the cellulose insulation. I was under the impression that when used in the walls it had a tenancy to settle to the floor. I am in the beginning stages of designing a TF addition to my house and have yet to determine what type on insulation I want to use. I do know I don't want to use any SIP.
Thanks.
Karl Hines

Sorry for not being philosophical on this thread.

But to answer the insulation question...
A lot of homes that have been retrofitted with cellulose (usually blown through holes drilled from outside) do have sagging insulation. That's the installer's fault. It's one of those you get what you pay for things.

Wet (just damp, with water) spray celloluse went into my walls, and it dries in place and sticks. It's very dense and fills all the air spaces. (I have a 2x6 curtain wall outstide the frame by the way.) And it sticks in the walls even after it has dried out.

The wet spray won't stick to roof surfaces, so they staple fabric on the framing, and then I strapped over the fabric. They punch a hole in the fabric and dense pack (the big difference between a good and bad installer) dry cellulose. You can dry spray walls as well under sheetrock, or with fabric and strapping. It really needs to be strapped because the cellulose bulges the fabric out between the bays.

SIPS are great and fast, but they're not my deal (expensive and OSB). Feel free to PM me on any other insulation questions.

Brad

Hi all:

Very interesting topic,

What is wrong with good dry pine shavings, for the attic space, like that sold for animal bedding.

I know of a 200 year old church that had 24 inches of shavings in the attic, and they still appear like new after all these years.

As far as the wall cavity goes in a timber frame this is what I suggest--imagine a cross section view of the wall constructed with 8" timbers--

starting from the outside--

-siding (whatever)
-black roofing paper
-1" groove and tongue boarding -
-3.5" cavity-(thickness of the brace material)
-4" of used old brick laid in soft mortar to just back of the interior surface ofthe timbers, this is a call by the owner\constructor- (the cavity could be smaller)
-fill cavity with shavings as the wall brick is laid
brick can be left in view on the interior,

(I didn't say this was going to be cheap)

We are looking at using mostly recycled products
NH

I think the main problem with the shavings is they are not fire retardant, in fact they are excellent kindling. As mentioned before, the insulation is the crux to a wholly organic home. It does make sense in an older structure though, after the construction of the frame, and all the hand planing and shaving done to sheath it, there would be a mountain of shavings.

My current plan when I build will be to sheath the house in boards, then put rigid insulation on, then put clapboards on the outside. This is still a couple of years away, so I have plenty of time to weigh my options.

Dave

As far as pholosophy goes, I think TF is the way to go. Less structural material, stronger structure, better options. There are also many green options for finish. Look int wool insulation. Naturally fire retardant and at about $1.50 sqft. fairly reasonable. Slate look can be had with recycled rubber shingles. 50 year guarantee and a really good look!. Our time as framers is looming large. Recent increases in energy costs are opening eyes to "different" things. The longing for personalization in homes is growing also. People are growing tired of cookie cutter homes. Let's give them something beautiful and long lasting. Revive the home as a hand me down!

Hello all,

I recently insulated my home with dense pack cellulose, and am pleased with the results. There are many characteristics about the product that I like and most of them landed within the parameters of my building philosophy (which is somewhere between Hundegger and hand-boring mechanism).

It's a recycled, sustainable product, it's vermin and fire retardant (treated with a natural product to resist both enemies) and it's healthy to live in (and much heathier to use than fiberglass).

Part of my personal philosophy with framing and building is material use. I understand (and have constructed) frames enclosed by SIPS, but have issues with structural panels attached to structural posts. With the dense pack walls, I used econo lumber, use 24" spacings, and was able to omit the structural requirements at windows, doors, etc..

My wall cavity, from the inside, is as follows...

-5/8 wall board
-2x4 framing, infilled between timbers, flush to the outside of the frame
-2x3 horizontal strapping, attached to the outside of the timbers and infill framing (allowing for 5" of insulation)
-mesh, installed tautly over the 2x3
-felt paper

Seemed kinda backwards when I built it, because I completed the framing, added the drywall, and then insulated. But, so far, so good.

I think I'm leaning towards ICFs for my next place. You can omit the posts on the perimeter of the building and save some board footage and labor. Also, there is little material redundancy from a structural viewpoint. And it's not F/G batts.

I've had couple pilsners and I think I'm rambling.

Cheers
Brock

Hi all again:

I am still on wall cavities, and materials that were used throughout the years before all these so called wonderful modern insullations hit the news.

The heated area of mills used solid 4by 4's one on top of the other, nailed and plastered into the wall cavities. This 4 inches of wood plus the exterior sheating added up to a good rfactor.
these rooms were very warm indeed, and were healthy to boot!.

Another early school house dating to 1820's used brick filled walls, up against outside 1" boarding, and then beautiful 16" t&g beaded pine boards on the interior walls, nailed to vertical furring strips. the walls were 8" thick, and the window and door frames were set in place as the walls were laid, talk about a beautiful thought out plan. the building was a timberframe structure.

Another shop that I helped restore used strips of cedar split from rail fences, held in place with wood pegs and plastered in the wall cavities, on the inside the walls were vertical furred, and plastered on top of horizontal wood lath, this also was a very warm building and seemed easy to heat in cold weather.

My own philosophy is to learn as much as possible about the tried and proved methods, and incorporated as many of these techniques into a modern home.

I realize that stone and brick will transmit cold from an exterior wall, but if you look closely at the walls the old people constructed their methods included a centre cavity to break this transmission, with a few bonding bricks or stone, to tie the two walls together.

Food for thought

It is hard to fight the modern march of progress

NH

I have read that some of the early plank-on-frame houses were more plank than frame, and that the planks were sometimes more than 3" thick. Wood will take on heat during the day, and when room temps drop at night it will re-radiate the heat.

Hi DMS

Yes that is right, the planks usually were applied vertically on the outside of the framework and were up to 3" in thickness, and by all means they would do wonders to keep out the cold, and retain the interior heat.

NH

I got into timber framing because of my love for log cabins so I kind of like the fusion style or piece en piece, whatever it's called. Basically a timber frame with log or timber walls with daubing between the wall logs. You have the benefits of both worlds, log walls with minimum settling issues to deal with. That being said, on my own timber frame I used sips and it's the warmest, least drafty and quietest place I've ever lived.

Hello all, Still the R-value of solid wood for insulation does not even come close to competing with the plastic crap we use today. In addition the SIPs have the added advantage of being a non interrupted insulation barrier unlike two by four framing with insulation in between. It seems SIPs have won this battle. But they are quite heavy and nearly impossible to install without a crane(boom truck). On top of that I still am completely defiant to put up a beautiful hand built, perhaps hand raised timber frame and wrap it up in a bunch of plastic. C*newman: Do you have any more info on the use of wool, websites, producers, etc... ?? I have heard of this before, but not very much, which made me think that it was outrageously expensive or not code friendly. I truly believe straw and perhaps wool may be the answers we are looking for. They both are completely natural, do not require lengthy processing leading to more energy consumption and thus more pollution( unlike concrete, but that is for another post). We just need some more education, advances in apllication technique, and easing of building codes, in addition to a more available supply. For instance I have yet to find a supplier in my neck of the woods(Woodstock,NY). I believe if more people starting using them ,by the law of supply and demand, more producers would start popping up. I love the thick walls you get using straw. They remind me the thick walls on old stone houses, which you can use as window seats and cabinets as well. As far as cellulose insulation, I dont know enough to throw in my two cents. tb

I installed my sips by myself without a crane including the roof panels.

Does anyone have a timber frame philosophy?

That's a tough question. I would like to think I do.

I have never been very good at distilling the chaos into paragraph form, but I'll give it a go.

One thought is that I believe that timber framers (and all tradesmen) should be paid well for what they do. This, of course, assumes a certain level of professionalism and skill.

Another might be that I think we should use local materials and use them more fully. You can build beautiful and strong frames with lower quality, even crooked wood. It is a waste to ship perfect doug fir across the country to completely overbuild something. Locally available materials used to totally shape the built environment. It still should.

I think a lot of people introduce a quixotic quest for perfection into timber framing that can be quite humorous. To perfectly cut a poorly configured joint or a poorly designed frame is to miss the boat. It is important to keep things in perspective. I like to see old frames where the framer was simply building something. He wasn't obsessing over making dollar bill tight shoulders and perfectly 2 inch thick tenons. Make a good fit where it counts and keep it neat where it doesn't. The same thing any good carpenter is thinking today.

I think we lost something in terms of the approach to the craft that we did not rediscover on a large scale in the revival and subsequent timber frame boom.

Is some introduced standard of fit and finish keeping traditionally joined timber framing from being a more widely available (affordable) building system?

I would rather see beautiful designs and raw wood than poor designs and beautiful finishes.

Oh and one more--

I like the thought of frames being built by carpenters. But then again I have always been a bit of a luddite.

Anyone else have some philosphy to share? or comments about my thoughts?

cheers,

Gabel

Hello all,

Gabel, your building philosophy has some great points. I'm often inspired by the people who frequent this forum.

Your post illustrates many parallels to my philosophy - I could just say "yeah, what he said...", but thought I'd add a little.

Material use has been a huge one for me lately. I love working through scenarios where one could alter plans to use local materials more wisely, and use materials where they are best suited (ie, avoiding the 'all season tire' approach to building).

I like the idea of regressing to a time where within your 'neighborhood', you knew of a few quality tradesmen who weren't reliant on large-scale manufacturers to produce a quality product.

Anyone else out there to add a few cents?

Cheers
Brock

OK I will add my "10 pennorth" for what its worth!!
I cant really say yet if I have a framing philosophy as such being a very keen raw beginner, although I would say that what attracted me to the notion of building frames was that it was a long established traditional method which had almost died out. I feel quite in tune with Mr Sobons aproach to treating framing tradition with respect and making changes or developements only cautiously; mind you being from the UK I feel more at home with scribe method rather than square rule. I like the idea of maintaining and passing on a good tradition like framing; I am proud of the English tradition in frame building and its wider contribution to framing generally; I like to see frames and want to build some new ones. I like using hand tools I dont care for dust and fumes so much-until I read Mr Sobon's books I thought I was out of order to think like that in this neo plastic building age! At one time I thought green tree hugger eco people were nut cases, now I'm not so sure, the eco building thing is growing and gaining wider acceptance I think. Theres green eco builders merchants here now, inconceivable only a few years ago. Eco friendly paints insulation plaster etc not to mention a new generation of recycled materials coming on to the market.
I agree totally with gabel about using local materials. It leads to very distinct and varied (genuinely diverse) regional vernacular styles that are in tune with nature. It also leads to architectural forms which are ideally suited to the climatic conditions to be found in each region (eg steep roof pitches in Northern Europe to resist snow better)
As regards insulation/heat etc in days gone by. Dont forget that folks spent a lot less time at home, 12 or 14 hours out, working the agriculture or the industry or whatever, lots less leisure time as we think of it nowadys. Also I am convinced folks were hardier then, didnt NEED to be bathed in warm dry air all day and/or night, shower twice a day, wear clean clothes every day etc. If you had to carry the water in you didnt waste any!! They devised ways to economise on fuel consumtion. for instance box beds as used in Yorkshire northern Scotland (and scandinavia I believe, possibly other places) where the beds were built into a small wooden enclosure with a door to keep out draughts on a night (a bit tricky if you ate too many beans though!) They also made use of the body heat from animals kept in byres below the living area; They put huge granite lintels over the fireplace and blocks at the side to store and radiate heat generated by the fire, they used the sides of the inglenook as a seating area with built in settles (benches) or stools. They used earth as roof insulation in Switerland also I believe. Also of course if it was nippy they put on an extra jersey instead of turn the thermostat up a notch, much cheaper! (or split some logs or whatever they were active people then not so obese and diabetic and so on)
Just a few thoughts

Hi Dave,

On the insulation question. I wonder if anyone has ever used as infill the small styrofoam peanuts they use when packing boxes for UPS etc. shipping. This would be a free and environmentally friendly insulation alternative. It might take some time to collect them. When you talk about wool, I assume you mean from sheep but there is also a product called rock wool which is a mineral and supposed to be a good insulator. Earth sheltered homes are interesting. Check our "permaculture", they have done a lot of research and work in this regard already

I hope to build a barn in about a year using the same principles that you mentioned, cutting by hand and using locally cut timbers and as many natural products as possible. I think you are on the right track. Keep going.

Haz

I can't say that I have a defined TF philosophy, and I agree with most of the of the previous comments. The discussion has prompted some personal review. In an address at Guelph, Tedd Benson stated that his business was not timber framing but a service to improve the life of his clients. That seems to be a well considered role. Most everything I do falls into a one of a kind job, designed to fit needs and budget and I hope the work provides delight. I don't try to foist the unwanted or presume to know how someone else should live. A process of discovery, connection and fullfilled service is my personal target.

"Conviction is a greater enemy of truth than lies" - Nietzsche

"Ten dervishes can sleep comfortably under one blanket but two kings can not share an empire" - a Berber saying

Haz

I recently heard about natural wool insulation while I was looking in a eco builders merchant locally here in the UK
It is made from sheeps wool and thats about all aparently. I think its new fleece, not recycled from old clothes etc. Aparently the sheep farmers cant sell their sheep fleeces easily for some beuracrappy reason so its a good new outlet for them.
I think wool wont burn readily as it comes from the sheep anyway, but this product might also have some additional fire proofing. It comes in batts (sheets) of various sizes and thicknesses. It is soft (no iritation like you get from glass wool or rock wool) And even if wool gets damp it still insulates.
The foam packaging peanut idea possibly not good health wise. If they burn during a fire (I assume that they are flammable??) they give off lethal fumes

check it out, good old google. The third site is north american.

http://www.sheepwoolinsulation.ie/

http://www.secondnatureuk.com/info.htm

http://www.goodshepherdwool.com/

Hi Mark, interesting links. The sop I visited was at Needham Market, but I forgot the name.
When you think about it its amazing no-one used wool before now. I wonder if they used whole fleeces stretched over house frames going back thousands of years to siberia/Alaska etc?? Just a thought

Doh just remembered they used wool felt to build yurts on (thin) wooden frames!!

That's really out there Derek. Ease off the Kool Ade. Check out Timber Framing #26 for Benson's article "Crafting the Future of Our Craft: Paradigms and Principles"

Quote "Our busines is to improve the quality of lives through our products and services."

Seems straight forward, read the article, it's worthwhile.

Derek, the mumbo jumbo is all yours.

My boots are shaking and there goes a pebble skittering across the floor.

When your book comes out on fishing with the family, I'd like a signed copy.

All the best

it's a house
it's not cabinetry on a grand scale
it's not a piano. not even, well maybe it is, a box for a piano.
make it level, plumb, square and true and it'll be better than most other houses being built out there today.
wood moves, try to accomodate that while building it, and hope the client accepts that when it does.
when we're trying to squeeze that last 32nd out of the joint remember that no one but us will be looking at that joint as closely as us. are we trying to impress ourselves and each other or build a nice, strong and functional frame/house without blowing the budget(ours or theirs)

boats are fun too

Hello Derek,

If I can be so brash as to ask, can you explain more why you should have followed in Jack Sobon's footsteps? And why is it too late to turn back?

I think this is the real question for everyone who loves working wood: balancing our hearts with our checkbooks.

If anyone else out there feels brave enough to bare their soul a minute, many of would be grateful.

By the way, that's a fine catch and a good looking boy.

Thanks and all the best,

Zach

good for you mate that you are prepared to look at yourself with scrutiny and be prepared to change. A fool is the one who knows somethings wrong but carries on anyway. Then you look back in old age and think oh gawd where did my life go to???? Better to have a mid life crisis than a death bed crisis. Its a brave and sincere man that will admit publicaly that he may have made mistakes or errors of judgement etc and wants to act on his instinct to change. Good luck with whatever new projects and ventures you start up
cheers Jonathan

Derek, your last post is what this thread is all about. I am a die hard "Sobonite" as well. Many of the modern day timberframe revivalist are in my area. One of the first was Richard Babcock. Jack, Pual Martin, and others started working for Richard in the 70's, and have gone on to make a huge difference in timber framing today. I don't want to get into a huge Benson/Sobon debate, but Benson's work seldom reflects traditional joinery, too many weird angles, and superflous gimmicks to trick the eye. That isn't to say that what he does is not high quality work, just not my cup of tea. I took a workshop with Jack and Dave Carlon two weeks ago called Traditional Timber Framing. We use all hand tools and traditional techniques to build a small Dutch house frame. I never want to see another power tool again in my life. I have gotten a lot of flack for wanting to do traditional framing with traditional tools. I may have to start my own company to do it that way. To qoute a freind of mine who hates electric drills "All electric drills should be smelted down and made into vacuum cleaners!" I would go a step further and throw in the skill saws and all the other foolish gadgetry I see people using thinking it is going to save them time.

I discovered timberframing only 3 years ago and immediately fell in love with the notion and resulting architecture. Looking to soak up every useful piece of information I could find, I felt grateful and indebted to Ted Benson and Jack Sobon (men I've never had the pleasure to meet) for the knowledge they had compiled and passed on through their books. Hoping to catch up with the timberframe revival (which probably started right about when I was born!), I bought the entire archives of the TFG journal, and read them over the course of about two weeks (like drinking water from a firehose). I attended a one week workshop on timberframing that promoted a style that was what I would call "Bentonesque with a top plate." Like my timberframe instructor, I was ready to borrow from both camps and build what ever was possible with the tools within my reach. Why all the controversy?

At first I didn't understand why Jack Sobon would use rafters with "spikes" (can we call them nails?), or why he would devote so many pages of his book to hewing a log. Equally as bewildering was the backlash against Mr. Benson that was evident in the "letters-to-the-editor" of the TFG journals. Mr. Benson found his timbers in old textile mills and Mr. Sobon found his in the back yard. Benson would free man using machines, and Sobon would free man from machines. There was room in the middle wasn't there?

I set about building a house for my family, using trees from our farm. Lured by the (bensonesque) frames in glossy magazines, I set out to emulate them, eschewing both "hewing axe" and "hundeggar" (from a practical standpoint, one was too much work and the other was too much money!), but embracing "the woodmizer" and "the makita chain mortiser". Now I'm in the throws of finishing the house and the romance of timberframing is a foggy memory as I try to get a waterproof roof before winter sets in (a second time!) on my frame.

Looking back on my short journey, and thinking about a timber framing philosphy going forward, I would have to say that I lean toward Sobon, now that I have a better personal grasp of the fundamental differences between Benson's approach and Sobon's approach. I can understand and empathize with the backlash against the direction Ted Benson proposes for timberframing (actually for house building in general). Although I love all of his books, I reject whole-heartedly the thesis put forward in his latest article published in Fine Home Building... that house building should be centralized and that centralization and specialization is necessary for quality. Bleeeuuucchhkk. I live in a manufactured (mobile) home now and that's the biggest motivation I have for finishing my site-built timberframe! What really turned my stomach was about 6 months after FHB published Benson's article, they published an article with the same thesis written by one of Benson's employees. Seems to me like they're all drinking the same kool-aid at Bensonwood.

I guess what I find most empowering about timberframing is that green wood and local materials are on the menu. The dreamer, the architect, the sawyer, and the builder can be the same person. You can do your own thing in your own corner of the world, without relying on or imposing on anyone. Take that away (I wouldn't say he wants to take that away, but Benson leaves no room for it in his own approach now) and the appeal of timberframing dissolves for me. Power tools, do not for me, detract from the lure of timberframing, because they provide leverage for the individual, without imposing on other individuals. Take a look at the computer you're reading this on right now - what wonderful power and leverage it provides you, but you can't make it in a blacksmith's forge. hmmm, I think I just figured out why Sobon never posts here...

I'll admit that I have to go to Lowe's to buy the tools, and for that I am relying on someone or worse yet, some company. I forget who said that an extremist is someone who is completely consistent in their beliefs. I realize that I'm not completely consistent in my timberframe philosophy, but maybe after I've got a roof over my family, I can throw away the power tools and be more consistent. I look forward to that.

TinK, thanks for another great post supporting us Sobonites without totally bashing Benson. The main problem with Benson homes for me is that they are not built by the homeowner from local materials, and are not affordable to the average homeowner. I am not surprised about Bensons philosophy, especially not when you take into account his clients ($$$).

As for making things in the forge I am making my own blacksmithing tools which I will use to make my own timber framing tools which I will use to build my own house. Not practical, but it is a fun journey.
I would be surprised to find Jack Sobon posting here, I know he doesn't use a computer in his architectural business. All of the plans he showed us during the workshop were hand drawn.

I have done some timber framing with power tools and some with hand tools. Working with hand tools is very relaxing and also quite productive. During the workshop a spectator commented that she had never seen so many people working so hard making so little noise. I looked behind me at fifteen people chiseling, planing, and boring in relative silence and said, yes, it's great isn't it?

Quite the spirited discourse here gentleman. In part because it is there for the taking , I would like to stake some middle ground, sometimes a dangerous proposition. In our small corner of the world we use both hand and power tools to build competively priced traditionally joined timber structures( all of our joinery is chopped to the line and hand planed). Striking the many balances to survive in the building trades is an endless practice. I believe it a neccessity and responsibility, to explore the roots of the craft and the potential, moving forward to recreate the way we build for an ever changing world.

Pass the Kool Aid ,
Mike

Derek,

Thanks. You're a brave man, telling the truth.
And you're right: building is fun, but nothing is more challenging and rewarding than family. A wood project can be perfect enough, but can a guy ever be a perfect enough dad?

I agree: master builders are the true architects. Anyone out there read The Old Way of Seeing by Jonathon Hale?

Thanks the rest of you folks, too, for posting luddite thoughts, and those in between, to the world?

Boatbuilding, eh, Derek? My town has less timberframes than a bad carpenter has fingers and the largest working woodenboat fleet on the West Coast. On occasion I leave my tools and go commercial fishing with friends on their wood trollers. It's one of the more beautiful experiences in the world, being dozens of miles offshore, pulling in fish, feeling a boat from the 30's work in response to big seas.
The folks who built those boats were builder/architects. Each fish iced in the hold makes the boat ride a little smoother. A good boat with a plugged hold rides like a happy boat.

Thanks, everyone, for this forum.

Zach

Well, now, don't I find myself in an awkward position, being both a timberwright and a CNC operator.
So here's my place in it all:
I grew up on a farm where my swedish mother raised sheep and taught weaving courses, and my scottish/native father hand crafted the looms for the courses. He had a swedish loom shipped to Canada for my mother which he used as a prototype for his own creations. The swedish one had metal hooks and gears, parts which he was unable to get at the time. So instead he built the parts out of wood. The result was a most amazing tool, hand crafted for hand crafting! My older sister loved the weaving part, but I loved the wood, the joinery, the smell of my fathers workshop, and spent as much time in there helping him as I could.
Our farm became known as a great hang out for the many artists and craft people travelling through the area at the time, and turned into a sort of hippie commune (we're talking early 70's, here), so people would trade their craft and experience in exchange for a place to sleep and a share in the garden.
So the beauty that I saw every day wasn't a proffessionaly drawn landscape; it was a stained glass window made from marbles and yesterdays broken plate, family portraits painted on scrap cedar planks, my own personal mug made from clay from our own river, and an old Dhukabor house with the craziest additions and funky trim! Nothing was 'perfect', but it was.
When I moved back to the area a few years ago, I learned there was a timberframing shop here. I promptly got a job there and started on my path to learning the most rewarding of trades. Dwight Smith, my employer, was and is an incredibly encouraging guy, and the level of talent and skill in that shop was amazing. And not one of the more than 15 men that I worked with had any issue with the fact that the only tool I couldn't supply was a penis! It wasn't needed! Go figure...
Anyways, after I had proved that I could leave, split or take the line while ripping a 10"x12"x24' with a 16" makita, and was well into learning layout, we all found out that the rumour was true: we were getting THE MACHINE!
At this point many of the highly skilled guys, some of whom had been with Dwight for many years, bailed immediately. Only one guy was willing to run the Hundegger - no-one else stepped up, and for obvious reasons; if any one of you were propositioned to give up hand cutting to run a CNC, what would your reaction be? Thought so.
But these guys had the years behind them. They were known in the timberframing and building community and have gone on to some great frames -sigh-. I had a pretty good job and wonderful co-workers, and three kids relying on me. I only had the 2 years as a timberwright under my belt, and could not and still cannot forsee going on my own.
So I stepped up.
I run the day shift. What I do have left of the old way is control over the assignment of pieces, and I can see the cut block from the shop from where the wood was selected. I can tell if a larch was cut down in the spring or fall, and cull it accordingly. And I can still go out in the yard before each project and select the perfect timbers for the 'perfect' bent. Some of them are clean and clear, but the real ones have little knots that look like eyes, that some small child will look at every night as she falls asleep, imagining.
So there. Somewhere rooted in this, be it in the blood or the memories or the encouragement, lies my philosophy on timberframing. I will always have it just as deep as many of you, a machine will not change that, but right now I gotta do it.
(And hand cut my own frame on the sly... )
*Kristina*

my philosophy of timberframing is a bit like my philosophy of religion, where I follow John Coltrane, who said "my religion is to study all religions"
so it goes for me with timberframing.
I was lucky enough to be trained initially in centerline square rule, and saw japanese joinery cut on my first job. I studied ontario barns from childhood, built and renovated at a living history museum, and built a home for my family using a barn frame. I'm now studying engish framing and hope to travel to the UK soon. I would love to study timberwork all over the world and learn as much of the craft as possible.
I see timberframing as a way to make buildings that will inspire people, buildings that will support people. The times I had in my family's barn as a child were some of my best times. I can remember laying on my back in the hay and tracing the lines of the timberwork with my eyes. and plenty of times with the cows inside and a wicked winter storm outside, and the feeling of security inside the barn...
I also like to teach timberframing and have held about a dozen courses at my workshop so far. I learn a lot through teaching, I feel you understand something better after trying to explain it.
there is no end to what can be learned in this craft.

What a great thread is being weaved!!

Everyone has a different philosophy, and I believe it stems from a person's own immediate need and circumstance, one person might need to put out a product that appeals to the right person, another might be interested in preserving history ( accurately)

I am in this last category, it is very self fulfilling and humbling to have been able to be part of the latter.

there is much left to be done in each of our areas that we live, whether it is in North America or overseas-and I say to all reap as you go but in the end give back something to your country by using your knowledge to preserve for future generations the skills that went before
NH

There's been so much action around here in the last few months, and so many new forum members, that I thought I would give this topic the Bump.

Any one else like to add their philosophy on timberframing?

*Kristina

Hi all,

is not the real beauty of a timber frame or any wood structure for that matter the wood itself and how it is put together? So why does it matter how any of us cut the beams?
Just because hundreds of years ago beams were cut with two-men-hand saws or maybe a water powered mill and hewn and chiseled by hand should not stop us from using what is available today. It does not change the beauty of the framework. And since most of us here are trying to get the "perfect" joinery why not let a CNC machine do that for us at a faster speed and a lower cost.
Just take a look at the industrious Germans. They are still building stunning timber framed houses. They last hundreds of years. And yet it did not stop them from using power tools. And once the timbers age and twist and split you would never see a difference anyway. Same is true for joinery. I always have to crack up when I see those super fancy shmancy tenon-peg-lap-joints.... that do not add to beauty nor significantly to strength on top of the fact that you cannot even see them when assembled. So way not go with something more simple yet still strong. And I am not talking metal fasteners instead of wood joinery.
So as long as we will have trees and keep them growing we will certainly enjoy the beauty of well build timber frames, no matter how they were cut. One cannot beat the natural appearance and warmth of wood.

Go with the times. You are adding electricity and running water as well as insulation to any new constructed home as well as insulated windows and doors. So what is the arguing about power tools or not?
Let's face it, if we want to convince our customers that a timber framed house is not some prehistoric relict of long past times that costs a fortune to build than we have no choice as to use power tools. Of course, if any of you out there can find laborers that are willing to work for a couple of bucks an hour it is doable. In that case send some of them my way.

As to the insulation issue: Since there is a large amount of fast growth wood one could simply build a solid wood wall. It will have to be somewhere around 10" thick or so but then you could build the house entirely without insulation. Of course this does not help with our timber frame issue.

Edited- for spelling

Welcome to the forum EH!

I think that the powertool issue is more about how someone wants to live their lives. There is less of a connection to the craft when you start mass producing posts and beams. I personally like to use the old tools. They do the job to perfection, and they don't use any electricity, they don't make any noise or dust. An experienced framer with good tools can certainly put out some work in a day. Powertools are often a way to make up for the experience neccessary to be productive, although I am not suggesting that all powertool users are inexperienced.

This is not to say that it is wrong to use them. If you don't mind the noise, dust, tripping over cords, then they are just fine. I enjoy peace and quiet when I am working, and I also like being able to have a conversation with co-workers when I am working, so the hand tools fill my needs well.

For some people there is no choice but to automate for ecnomical reasons, some companies build many frames a year and have to keep up with demand.

I realize that earlier I stated that I felt that it cheapens the craft. That is only my view, and when the client moves into their new home, they probably aren't going to be worrying about how the joinery was cut, just that it was cut, and that it is beautiful.

I personally place a value on the work that is completed, and not the time it takes to do it, so it doesn't affect the customer how I do it, only myself. My own philosophy is always changing as I learn more about timber framing. While I often disagree with other people, I always try to be open minded about the way they see timber framing.

I don't know how much timber framing you do, but if you would like to stop over and try out my antiques, I am getting some timbers in hopefully next week, and you are more than welcome. You can contact me here or look me up in the phone book.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I did not intend to offend anybody. Sometimes I say things a little harsh. So whatever you feel comfortable doing be it hand tools or portable tools or even CnC machinery.
When I think of a timber framed structur I always picture a german style frame. That is a lot of wood to cut and that is way I am more open to machine cutting. I would spend my time fitting the frame and adding interesting details to rafters and so on rather than laying out a truck load of post and then cut the tenons... Let the machine do the repetitive work. I still get to design and assemble it.
Of course if I were to build a US typical frame with a number of bends and purlins hidden away behind Sips I might consider the more labor intensive route of hand cutting and hewing. But I cannot identify myself with that type of frame work.
I have done some screened porches and entrance ways in timber frame but have not yet had the chance to actually build an entire house. With only a few years in business I am certainly not all that well known for what I can and want to do around here. Right now I am gearing towards a spec house as it seems easier to sell a product that you can show to interested customers rather than showing them pictures only.
But maybe we can meet up some day and work on a project together. Could not quite figure out if you are just cutting frames for other companies or if you build your own as well.

EH, you didn't offend me, you only stated your opinion, which is what I had hoped for when I started this thread. One of the great things about timber framing is that it is flexible enough to allow us to do it in whatever way we are comfortable.

I have been making the move into timber framing for a while now, and I have several frames of my own to start cutting. I will spend the rest of my life working in wood, that much I am sure of.

I am not sure if you remember me but I did the excavation for the decks you did for Gail Mullen.

Dave

Dave,

I know who you are now. Of course I remember you. I had no idea that you are into timberframing. Well, have fun cutting your frames and if you might need some help you know where to find me .

Happy New Year

I shun adopting a philosophy as in my opinion abiding by a philosophy stunts the evolution of learning and personal growth and leads to that mid-life crisis.

I think Timber Goddess said it well and it moved me to tears.

"I can still go out in the yard before each project and select the perfect timbers for the 'perfect' bent. Some of them are clean and clear, but the real ones have little knots that look like eyes, that some small child will look at every night as she falls asleep, imagining."

It matters little the tools that are used or the philosophy we hold so long as we realize that the product we produce is an extension of ourselves and a legacy to the trade. Will it stand for centuries proud so that little eyes may look at those beams and marvel or will it crumble and decay like so many structures of the past which were built by laborer's drudgery rather than artisans and craftsmans passion. The true timberframer has passion which is reflected in his work. When it becomes just a way to pay the bills then something is lost.

Derek reflects this well in his post and boat building is a good idea. Every hand built wooden boat is named and christened and reflects the personality and purpose of it's owner and builder.

If I were to embrace a philosophy of TF, being a father, or life in general for that matter, it would be anything that cuts the amount of time spent limits the potential of the finished product. It is in this vein that power tools can become evil.

It always amazes me how hand clearing a lot and simply spending time on a building site throughout a year gives a completely different insight as to the location of the home vs. using a bulldozer. One can get an appreciation for the land and how it lays and interacts with the sun, wind, rain and elements of nature and how it interfaces with mans spiritual side.

A home is more than a box we live in. The builder who, regardless of the construction method used, understands this concept, embraces it and adapts the structure to fit the needs of the occupants will find that not everything can be a historical carbon copy. We must grow and evolve the trade just as our ancestors did not limiting it to a certain philosophy or style based on existing works.

Embrace Medieval works, European, Germanic, Scandinavian, Japanese, American and learn from non-traditional as well as traditional buildings. Look at the concepts behind a design and the soundness of it's joinery and materials. Use what is good and shun what is bad.

I guess this is my philosophy but I reserve the right to amend and change at any time witout prior notice!

Reminds me of a passage in one of my all time favorite books, THE MONKEY WRENCH GANG, by Edward Abbey

I don't have a timberframe philosphy per sey; I just think, that when you cut down a mature tree, you don't abuse the privelege by wasting it. Using it in a structure designed to stand the test of time is the highest best use of a tree. I understand that a substaiably managed wood lot will produce a lot of other wood products like firewood and pulp. But when you get to a mature stand the resulting timber should be used in durable manner.
Mike

Time for another BUMP

If I gotta work for a living.....

It might as well be something that makes people say..WOW

Where was our timber philosiphy when the USDA developed and implemented stick building as an alternative to costly timberframing ? Americans always seem to tend to gravitate towards , new , cheaper , better? , is something in our pioneer spirit to buck the system and try something new. To assume we know more than our fore fathers.
I say gentlemen and ladies , let us rise up and buck the system and statis qou and denounce stick framing as an inferior system for home building. Probably our children will buck back and denounce us and our timberframing ways , and bless em for it.
We should be proud and loud and maybe even ridicule stick building as wussy girly man construction.
Here are a couple ideas for bumper stickers or t shirts: Timber framers have bigger tools!
Go big or go home (tf pictured)
Timber frame? If ya don't know you probly ain't got one.

Well, there is nothing like the process and product of something that can be appreciated with your vision, your touch, your mind, and hell even the smell. I am a very curious person. I don't think I understand something until I completely understand. If you don't know why your computer or calculator tells you something then you don't understand. Maybe this is why I like timberframes and (yes timberframers, Genuine and prideful people I have met so far.) When I look at a timberframe I can understand why the building stands. You can look at the pieces for hours. Guessing on some of the forces, those hidden angles in there. You can see the challenge and you can see the strength. Other buildings not so much, except masonry, that's cool too.

I will not get into the machine deal but can relate to Thomas in Kentucky on that subject.

Now to the kicker. Why do you not see many timberframes on the beach? Why do you see them mostly in the mountains and the Northeast. Why do most people classify timberframes as traditional. Because they are. Do they have to be strictly traditional style frames. Absolutely not. I think that timberframing goes beyond a saltbox, cape, barn, etc. That's not to say I don't appreciate these, but there has to be more options . Why couldn't you do a timberframe in a Frank Lloyd Wright style? You can! It will take some time, but its possible. You can use timberframe for any style you want. I like bents. I like hips, different pitches and so forth. I like it all. I know that dealing with spans, loads, and other things limit free form, but I will try anyway. I think this timberframing needs to be more versatile in style. It's always fun to try new things.

And if I have to use metal to have that hip stand, I will. I know blacksmiths.

Mo,

well said.

So here I go again, reviving this topic.
It is a timely bump, though, as I have been delving a little deeper into my timberframing 'career'. My initial post on the subject was possibly the planting of a seed, and I have often come back here to read it, to analyse what I was trying to put into words.

I've realised that I can't put into words how I feel about it, but instead have to live it.

And off I go!!
Have chisel, will travel.
Keep an eye out for me in the itinerant forum,...and if you see a big blonde chick wandering by your shop with a tool box in hand and determination in her eyes, be nice and hand her a timber...

Cheers, Buddy!

hey we all know each others language, how about the other 99 %

These are the rules posted in my dad's shop, and will be mine for timberframing:

1. Enthusiasm

2. Disillusionment

3. Panic

4. Search for the Guilty

5. Punishment of the Innocent

6. Praise and Honors for the Non-Participants

bump.......

Thanks mo! It's cool to see that this topic has been so popular. I'll have to reread my original philosophy to see if it's changed in the last year.


Dave

Timberframing a trade or profession? I don't see plumbers professing thier plumbing philosophy.

I hear it often. S@#t flows downhill. Payday is thursday. Keep your fingers out of your mouth!

Sorry-- had to!

Regarding philosophy,
I came into carpentry later in life. I've done high end kitchens and renovations. I have a background in environmental engineering. Did lots of work for people who are environmentally hypersensitive. (allergic to everything, even wood!) Did some airsealing of houses/ retrofit insulation.
I come to timberframing because it is healthier for ME! Period!
Plus, nothing beats pounding a chisel!

dave

nicely put.

porter would be the prefered I suppose.

guard? Guiness maybe?

Oh. I was just having fun dj.

Oh. I was just having fun dj.
Stout is a beer, porter also,,was made for hardworking fellows to fortify them. Give them strenght. Pretty stout???
Was just goofin!

Please don't let DJswan's and my little sideline put a stop to our thread.
I'm not sure of my philosophy yet,,but know it's good for my heart.. I return home every single day happy.

I have a philosophy that has timber framing in it.

Bump.

joining timbers would itself be a way of doing philosophy; if we understand that philosophy is a love of wisdom, rather than the elaborate systems that are often used to represent it.

the most striking feature about making some sort of structure out of timbers ontologically, in terms of the being of the act, is the inherent giveness of the material- the timbers are heavy, they have distinctive grains, finishes, trees out of which each one came in particular- each tree being one distinctive being, one distinctive life, in a whole world full of living things, a forest of them literally. so the material stands out as given; it is also called out of the panalopy of beings that is balanced precariously up in the air- desperately balanced even. (I sense the desperation of trees nowadays, though perhaps this is imagination.) Every good timber has the character of a noble tragedy and a passing on. aphorism, and philosophy shades into poetry. a poetic kind of timber framing might have the same sort of character, the same sort of presence in the practice - fostering a sense of the given and its potentials- though it might, qua poetry, spend its evenings differently.