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Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: D Wagstaff] #30294 02/14/13 12:06 PM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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There is something about metal tool handles that doesn't set right with me, very cold in the winter and hot in the summer.

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: D Wagstaff] #30296 02/14/13 04:04 PM
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Jon Senior Offline
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The bisaiguë isn't used freehand. Both hands are used, one on the handle and the other on the shaft to guide it. I think that the french would use a tarière (an auger) to pre-pierce the hole and then the bisaiguë would be used to clear the remaining material. I've seen references that imply as much, but nothing that clearly states it.

I wondered why it was that the French traditionally worked so low, but it just occurred to me; a standard practice here was to draw the layout on the ground at 1:1 scale and to lay the timbers over the top. Given this methodology, the ability to work at ground level comfortably would explain the evolution of such a long tool.

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: Jon Senior] #30298 02/14/13 09:22 PM
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D Wagstaff Offline OP
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But how otherwise would you describe chopping a mortice given the use of a bisaiguë? Certainly not by pushing it into the wood, a very difficult action with a straight cutting edge. Even the translation out of the French you provide says that the sheer weight of the bisaiguë replaces the need of a mallet, implying some use of that weight, I presume through some kind of percussive action. The auger or pre-boring would provide a solution to the guidance but also implies that without this step first the bisaiguë is only a half useful tool on its own.

I came across what I found an incredible statement by what is otherwise a reputable Flemish institution on carpentry and tools, and which I almost hesitate to repeat because you know how these things take on their own life, but it said the hollow handle would be filled with hot coals in the winter and stopped with clay to keep the hands warm. I doubt this. A lot of French carpenters are using all metal chisels or one piece chisels. I don't like the practice either.

I think the working height and why it varies from place to place could be a difficult thing to clarify but with the French it begins even before layout at the point of preparing the timbers where they score from on top and edge down low.

Last edited by D Wagstaff; 02/14/13 09:25 PM.
Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: D Wagstaff] #30299 02/14/13 10:06 PM
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Jon Senior Offline
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I can't imagine how much force you can get from simply pushing it. It seems unfathomable, but so did the use of a demi-bisaiguë until I got my hands on one. The idea (as described in the book I quoted from before) is that your left hand sits on the shaft and guides, while your right pushes against the "handle". There's a relatively local association that explores traditional carpentry techniques. I'll try and get in touch with them and see if they can shed some light on the matter.

It is true that traditional French carpentry tools are one-piece metal affairs. The old joke played on the new apprentice was apparently to send him off to look for the wooden handle for the bisaiguë. This practical joke appears to be better known than how to use the tool itself. You can read into that what you will.

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: Jon Senior] #30301 02/15/13 10:38 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline OP
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The truth hidden in this anecdote and that is that it is literal- the wooden grip of the bisaiguë is lost, only to be found hanging on the kreuzaxt! And so the apprentice out in Normandy would search long and hard until making his way into the Jura of Alsace, (you see where the Compagnonnage/ Wandelgezell/ Journeyman,comes into the picture) where the street names are still in German and German and French identity is vague and the bisaiguë is still an axe.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: D Wagstaff] #30332 02/20/13 02:12 AM
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floyd mcdermitt Offline
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Hello
I am in Georgia and have never heard of such. I tried to find a picture of one of these things never found one. seems as it is some kind of axe but how would you cut a mortise with a axe
Thanks

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: floyd mcdermitt] #30333 02/20/13 02:22 AM
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Hello Floyd,

Go to Don W. first entry and copy the work "kreuzaxt" then go to Google images. You will see them and more.

Regards,

Jay

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: floyd mcdermitt] #30337 02/21/13 11:42 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline OP
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Hello,

It's a good model, this one, with the outward tapered socket for mounting the handle and not just an eye like all the new ones being made and sold.



I know scale is difficult to show but I would describe it as a heavy tool. You see the two bits with cutting edges perpendicular to each other. Not much information to be found up til now so nothing other to do than fix up some practice wood and start using.
Some more pictures here Floyd.






Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: D Wagstaff] #30342 02/22/13 02:13 AM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Hi Don,

That is really similar to the one I used. I have leather on many of my handles and sometime the metal as well. That is one of those little lost elements of the trade that you just don't see often today. That tool in your photo could be pushed, I guess, as some have suggested, but I used it in chopping fashion, as did my mentors. Thank's for the great photos.

Regards,

jay

Last edited by Jay White Cloud; 02/22/13 02:14 AM.
Re: Kreuzaxt [Re: Jay White Cloud] #30346 02/22/13 04:12 PM
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D L Bahler Offline
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The Kreuzaxt is, in mutch of the German speaking world anyway, an outdated tool. It was used centuries ago for the job of cleaning out mortises and also for dressing joints much like Americans would have used a slick.

The Kreuzaxt was replaced a very longtime ago by a development of it. Some time along the line, they removed the wooden handle (but left the socket) and also the mortising chisel was removed. We are left with a tool known as Stossaxt or Stichaxt, which is today a very very common tool.

This tool is used on timbers just above knee high for applications where a slick might be used in other traditions. It is single beveled, and you use it by leaning into the tool and letting the mass of your body do the work. It is not a primary joint cutting tool, but a fine finishing tool (and a very good one at that)


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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