Hello,

Because my use of axes in woodworking runs wide and not deep and also in an effort to limit the tools I am using in some work at the moment only to axes I went ahead and got the kreuzaxt for morticing. Finding any kind of written information or instruction hard to come by so thought I would raise it here on this forum. Does anyone have experience with this tool also known as twybil?

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Hello Don,

Haven't used one in a long time. Use to own 3 or 4 of them. When I was apprenticed, I saw them often, (I did most of the sharpening for everyone.) Some folks really liked them, it seemed to be a personal preference, perhaps from who trained them? I used versions of this tool, "fencers ax," for a number of years quite extensively. It was in this same family of axes, one looked more like an adz with very slight swoop, the other a true chisel.

I agree, you don't see much written about them, I have even done some searches in French and German with limited results.

Regards,

jay

Then you can do better than this Jay. Most critical to begin is the good working height to set up the timbers and then onto physical posturing, technique and method. I am sure these would have been standardized particularly in this case where the tool has only specialized application.

Don

Hi Don,

Not really.

I can do many different hewing styles, and know/have used many of the different tools, from axes to Japanese "chouna," but I'm betting you have more experience behind a family of regionally significant types.

When I teach students we cover brief histories, I answer their questions the best I can, but when it comes to how to technique, method and posture, I tell them what I was taught.

"ask the tool," it will teach you more than me.

I weight almost 90 k (200 lb) and stand 1930 mm (6'4") with boots on, so the way I would use a tool is completely different than the way a much smaller person, with less strength would or could, safely. Some of my stone carving hammers can actually cause bones to break, just because a students arms aren't conditioned to there repeated use. Hewing tools can often be the same way.

The times I used a "mortise ax," was pretty strait forward in application. Stay inside the lines and "chop." I found in time I could do it quicker with my large carving gouges as quick or quicker, than with the ax.

So many of these tools are used in different fashions, depending on the linage and mentorship history. For example, I almost always use a draw knife with the "bevel side down," (except for some fine work,) which is the way I was taught and have found in text as well, while most folks learn to use them "bevel side up."

Regards, jay

Far from a complete reference, but there is a small entry on the Charpentiers d'Europe et d'ailleurs site put in place by the Ministère de la Culture et Communication in France.

English version:
http://www.en.charpentiers.culture.fr/node/628
French version:
http://www.charpentiers.culture.fr/lesoutils/diversiteregionale/diversitedeshachesequarrir/piochond%E2%80%99alsacehautrhin

The English version describes it as a single bevel, while the French version claims double bevel. I think they're referring to cutting edges, but perhaps you can shed some light on it with your tool.

The mortising end of the full Bisaïgue (Can't remember it's name in German off-hand. I did find it before.) looks similar to the mortising end of the Kreuzaxt. The difference is that the Kreuzaxt is used in a striking motion, while the bisaigue is pushed from the shoulder.

Hi Jon,

Now that you bring up bisaiguë it strikes me that while I have seen everything from 18th century engravings to youtube videos showing this tool being used, not once has the chopping end been shown in action, always the pairing end only.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

This is true. I suspect that in modern videos, the basic clearing work is done with smaller tools, either axes, or mortising chisels and the Bisaiguë is kept for finishing work (I have a demi-bisaiguë or Pontache) which consists of just the paring end. I've seen lots of videos of them being used and there's a wider range of new models available which speaks to the chopping end of the bisaiguë being more of a relic.

I would suspect that the removal of lots of material is more easily done with an axe or mortising chisel. Being able to get some weight behind the paring end is really useful, but I think you may need that striking force of a swung axe to really clear the chips.

Is it possible that the "chopping end" is actually used to scoop the chips out of a deep mortise? I know that's what I would use it for...

Rooster

OK. Taken from the following:
http://books.google.fr/books?id=7SlKAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=bisaigu%C3%AB&source=bl&ots=QZe2bTSAGw&sig=idUE7Kd27OXIFgC-UEjSwA7Dpnk&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=R4saUdOFCMWAhQea0oDgBQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=bisaigu%C3%AB&f=false

Which is a book about carpentry written in 1857. I've included the original text for those that can read french. The translation is mine. Comments in [] are my explanations.





This description suggests that the bisaiguë is actually used as a mortising tool and not just for chip clearance, and also that it is used with a pushing action and not a chopping one (pushed, not thrown).

This user on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/phojoo) has a large number of videos featuring traditional french carpentry techniques, and while I've not trawled through all of them, the demonstrated uses of the bisaiguë are all using the paring end, either for tidying up mortises, or in some cases, planing a complete surface.

I'll soon be presenting my candidature for a 2 year apprenticeship in carpentry here. If I get the place, I'll be sure to quiz all and sundry about this weird tool. Clearly we've deviated somewhat from Don's original post. Apologies for the derail.

P.S. bisaiguë comes from bi-aigué, meaning literally twin-beveled.

Hello,

The part about the height at which the french carpenter works will shed a good light on the bisaiguë. They are working down low and so a kreuzaxt would be ill-suited and has been adapted. German carpenters are working at a higher level around the height of the thigh.
The principle of chopping the mortice is unchanging regardless of the tool used within this category - bisaiguë, kreuazxt, stemmeisen - a vertical cut to sever the long grain, and then ejecting the chip. The difficulty to be grasped is in the case of the freehand action of both bisaiguë and kreuzaxt. I believe there must be some guidance mechanism involved even to the extend of pre-wasting the bulk of the material from the mortice opening.

Jon, first of all I wish you success with your application. Regarding the carpenter highlighted, I am skeptical that he knows anything.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

There is something about metal tool handles that doesn't set right with me, very cold in the winter and hot in the summer.

The bisaiguë isn't used freehand. Both hands are used, one on the handle and the other on the shaft to guide it. I think that the french would use a tarière (an auger) to pre-pierce the hole and then the bisaiguë would be used to clear the remaining material. I've seen references that imply as much, but nothing that clearly states it.

I wondered why it was that the French traditionally worked so low, but it just occurred to me; a standard practice here was to draw the layout on the ground at 1:1 scale and to lay the timbers over the top. Given this methodology, the ability to work at ground level comfortably would explain the evolution of such a long tool.

But how otherwise would you describe chopping a mortice given the use of a bisaiguë? Certainly not by pushing it into the wood, a very difficult action with a straight cutting edge. Even the translation out of the French you provide says that the sheer weight of the bisaiguë replaces the need of a mallet, implying some use of that weight, I presume through some kind of percussive action. The auger or pre-boring would provide a solution to the guidance but also implies that without this step first the bisaiguë is only a half useful tool on its own.

I came across what I found an incredible statement by what is otherwise a reputable Flemish institution on carpentry and tools, and which I almost hesitate to repeat because you know how these things take on their own life, but it said the hollow handle would be filled with hot coals in the winter and stopped with clay to keep the hands warm. I doubt this. A lot of French carpenters are using all metal chisels or one piece chisels. I don't like the practice either.

I think the working height and why it varies from place to place could be a difficult thing to clarify but with the French it begins even before layout at the point of preparing the timbers where they score from on top and edge down low.

I can't imagine how much force you can get from simply pushing it. It seems unfathomable, but so did the use of a demi-bisaiguë until I got my hands on one. The idea (as described in the book I quoted from before) is that your left hand sits on the shaft and guides, while your right pushes against the "handle". There's a relatively local association that explores traditional carpentry techniques. I'll try and get in touch with them and see if they can shed some light on the matter.

It is true that traditional French carpentry tools are one-piece metal affairs. The old joke played on the new apprentice was apparently to send him off to look for the wooden handle for the bisaiguë. This practical joke appears to be better known than how to use the tool itself. You can read into that what you will.

The truth hidden in this anecdote and that is that it is literal- the wooden grip of the bisaiguë is lost, only to be found hanging on the kreuzaxt! And so the apprentice out in Normandy would search long and hard until making his way into the Jura of Alsace, (you see where the Compagnonnage/ Wandelgezell/ Journeyman,comes into the picture) where the street names are still in German and German and French identity is vague and the bisaiguë is still an axe.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Hello
I am in Georgia and have never heard of such. I tried to find a picture of one of these things never found one. seems as it is some kind of axe but how would you cut a mortise with a axe
Thanks

Hello Floyd,

Go to Don W. first entry and copy the work "kreuzaxt" then go to Google images. You will see them and more.

Regards,

Jay

Hello,

It's a good model, this one, with the outward tapered socket for mounting the handle and not just an eye like all the new ones being made and sold.



I know scale is difficult to show but I would describe it as a heavy tool. You see the two bits with cutting edges perpendicular to each other. Not much information to be found up til now so nothing other to do than fix up some practice wood and start using.
Some more pictures here Floyd.






Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Hi Don,

That is really similar to the one I used. I have leather on many of my handles and sometime the metal as well. That is one of those little lost elements of the trade that you just don't see often today. That tool in your photo could be pushed, I guess, as some have suggested, but I used it in chopping fashion, as did my mentors. Thank's for the great photos.

Regards,

jay

The Kreuzaxt is, in mutch of the German speaking world anyway, an outdated tool. It was used centuries ago for the job of cleaning out mortises and also for dressing joints much like Americans would have used a slick.

The Kreuzaxt was replaced a very longtime ago by a development of it. Some time along the line, they removed the wooden handle (but left the socket) and also the mortising chisel was removed. We are left with a tool known as Stossaxt or Stichaxt, which is today a very very common tool.

This tool is used on timbers just above knee high for applications where a slick might be used in other traditions. It is single beveled, and you use it by leaning into the tool and letting the mass of your body do the work. It is not a primary joint cutting tool, but a fine finishing tool (and a very good one at that)

That does not seem to be the case in France, or am I mistaken? They seem to still use in don't they?

I am uncertain,

however the Besageu (I have no idea how to spell anything French) is as I understand it the third generation development of this tool family. It was developed from the Stichaxt by making the whole thing bigger, and adding the mortising chisel end back to it. The use, as I take it, is still very similar.

Thank you. That was the name I was trying to remember earlier. In French it is known as a demi-bisaiguë. I get the impression that it's less common in France (certainly it's more common the closer you get to the German border), but it's well-known enough that you can buy them fairly easily.

Edit to add (didn't finish reading the whole thread!):
Jay: The bisaiguë is not a particularly common tool here. While I'm sure that all carpenters are aware of it, I don't image that wery many use it still (Not least of all because most carpentry work here (at least in Normandy) is limited to installing industrial trusses onto concrete block houses. More call for a nail gun than traditionally mortising tools.

D L Bahler: Interesting idea. I assumed (largely from the French names) that the Bisaiguë evolved directly from the Kreuzaxt, and that the demi-bisaiguë came about from people only needing the one end. I've not researched this at all so I speak from guess-work, not historical understanding.