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Re: Pencils [Re: Jay White Cloud] #30336 02/21/13 11:14 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline
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Hello Jay


Lay-out from a center line has been the norm here from the 13th century called hartlijn.
I guess the greasy ink was basically water and soot.
About all I can say concerning my experiance is I am 100% autodidact as a carpenter with a variety of background sources and have always worked alone.
Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Pencils [Re: D Wagstaff] #30339 02/21/13 10:18 PM
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denton4th Offline
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I like using a Pentel .9 mm mechanical pencil. I use the rolling technique to keep it sharp. For most stuff it is thin enough with our sharpening but on precise stuff I will take one pass with a piece of sandpaper. It is thick enough that it doesn't break too often, but being a mechanical it's just a few clicks from back to working order. You can find it at amazon.com, Office Depot, or a big box store. They run about $10 for a 2 pack. I use this or a carpenters pencil sharpened with a block plane for a super fine line.

Re: Pencils [Re: D Wagstaff] #30343 02/22/13 02:33 AM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Quote:
Lay-out from a center line has been the norm here from the 13th century called hartlijn.
I know in Dutch that "hartlijn" means center line or axis. Can you present any online resources in Dutch showing its use? Now I really need to know more about that date of the 1200 CE and how you arrived at that. It supports some of my findings about trade with Asia during the first have of the Current Era. The Vikings did probably the most, some are even buried with effigies of the Buddha so we know they traded that far. The also had metal blades that exceed their technology at the time but was found in the Middle East and Asia, which of course they soon perfected and advanced.

Would you say that Line method "hartlijn" is your preferred method now? If so, please explain it in your words why you think it is superior. I would love to know your thoughts on it.

Quote:
I guess the greasy ink was basically water and soot.
I have heard of this but what my mentors used had a very light oiliness to it. Almost like sumi ink but not as refined.

Quote:
About all I can say concerning my experience is I am 100% autodidact as a carpenter with a variety of background sources and have always worked alone.
If you did not have mentors, what was the background sources that have aided you the most? Do you believe that rediscover from an unknown position can often be more reveling than if you read about it or where shown?

Thank you for your input,

Regards,

jay

Re: Pencils [Re: Jay White Cloud] #30344 02/22/13 09:40 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline
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Hello,

Not to be evasive in answers to your questions Jay but I look up at the title of the current topic and the vein of the other contributions up till now on this thread and think that might take us a bit far afield. Were you to begin some new line of inquiry, say "How do we know what we know? A carpenters epistemology of methods and techniques." for example, that might be a better virtual space to go into the different segments you mention, and I will join in as I think the points you bring up are interesting even if somewhat ambitious.

That said, the greasy soot ink part does continue on in the spirit of the topic and I can contribute there with this anecdote from a year or so past. I generally tar the exterior of my barn every few years or so with a mixture that I have come up with myself through experimentation. A component of this mix is the addition of a black pigment which seems to give some protection to the base of pine tar, extending its life. But I also do a fair bit of mixing my own paints up and black is one of the handy pigments to have on hand though in talking it over with the pigment supplier last time I found that this soot pigment I was using for the barn is not so suitable for other paints as it will bleed through because of the particular oils it contains which we are all familiar with from looking inside the chimney or from the condensation that occurs inside of the woodfurnace when you start it up in the morning.
So the soot and water mixture would not be incompatible with the oily texture of the ink used that you are familiar with. In fact I understand that green, in the sense of wet, els, I'm trying to think of the English, alder, that's it, is said to give the best marking ink.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: Pencils [Re: D Wagstaff] #30345 02/22/13 02:19 PM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Agreed,

Even though it falls within layout, the question was about pencils. I need to stop asking questions late at night, I forget the topic and focus too much on the question... crazy



Last edited by Jay White Cloud; 02/22/13 02:19 PM.
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