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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30365 02/27/13 09:42 PM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Hi Richard, it is the Sun.

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: TIMBEAL] #30368 02/28/13 01:25 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone

hi Timbeal--nice to hear from you--

well i guess we could blame the sun, it comes and goes, and we really don't know what makes it tick-really--but it does create climate changes each season for sure--hope it soon gets here-maybe bring along some good changes, the ones we go south to find--

maybe its gravity lurking around, making things fall--except the clouds which float along--amazing really--actually they are rising while everthing else is falling--

I can remember when i was young, the old guys would say ,when we had bad weather spells--its those blasted airplanes up there stirring things up--

but really if you believe our scientists, the world has gone through may major climatic changes and for sure there will be many more, and we will not change things in that respect change will come--we might hasten things alittle but the major input is from things outside our control---like our RNA--

well i got to go out now and continue to slit some wood to feed my wood stove,--and add some terrible CO2 to the atmosphere- and give the cows some thing to eat and belch about--maybe hasten the climate change in the right direction--

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30399 03/15/13 12:58 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

Well the winter part of old mother nature is sure sticking around, the geese are back but I bet that they wish that they should have stayed down south a while longer, one thing for sure they sure noticed the corn crib from way up there, it didn't take them long to clean up all the kernels laying around--the pairs are staking out land claims not far from the food supply--

I have the wood supply for next winter well on the way, just finishing up--and on the bad days working on my grind stone set up, coming along nice--referred to the old text book to get grinding speed worked out--they were smart old fellows then because they didn't use rpm's-- rather they note grindingwheel rim, or circumference speed as feet per minute, so it doesn't really matter how big the wheel or how small, just measure its circumference and away you go, in my case the grinding wheel is 86 " around so using their suggested speed of 700 feet per minute it comes down close to what I suspected about 100 rpm in todays jargon

They also included nice formulas to work out pulley sizes that are workable in both direction ie: if you know the speed of the driver, or failing that if you know the speed of the driven, you can work out easily the pulley sizes

--I have the grinding wheel presently mounted on a moveable platform that can be stored away easily, and then moved out for use.

The wheel itself is quite heavy and getting its shaft centered was a task, but I eventually got there, at least for the 700 rim speed recommendation.

I did alot of soul searching to come up with a workable shaft, because it came with nothing but a rough hole about 1-3\4", and not straight through the stone--well my final decision was
1-1\4" pipe--I used floor collars up against the stone threaded on a short piece of threaded connector pipe through the stones centre hole, I spun the collars up tight against the stone on both sides, centering it in the proceedure, I then drilled and threaded lag screws into the stone to hold it firmly.

The collars being threaded right through have enough thread left to accepted short 1\14" pipe on each side of the stone, this pipe protruding out from the stone creates a good support for the stone to rotate on.

I used emery cloth to really shine up the exterior surface of the pipe, that will be in contact with the support bearings

well got to go now, will discuss this project further tomorrow
I have some issues that I might need some help with, please comment or post questions if you have any

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30402 03/15/13 07:44 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline
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Hello,

Not quite visualizing the entire process there N.H. but I'm sure it's working for you. Maybe if you get the time you can send up some pictures.


Quote:
I then drilled and threaded lag screws into the stone to hold it firmly.


Don't you worry these screws will rust and crack the stone right down there by the hole? Do you use plugs or go right in the stone with screws only? Probably if you cinch those collars down good there will not be to much stress on the screws. I have found some paper there under the collars helps them grip the stone.

Well, I have got the best part of the split firewood stacked in the wood shed too, filled right up to the nook, and today I'll be going further to get the last in while there is still a frost in the ground and I can walk there more easily than in the mud. We're looking at about 30 cubic meters to get through the winter. Had to send my young daughter up there while I passed the wood to her from below. She's getting to be a good stacker.

I sat down at the grind stone myself last week when there was a bit of warmer weather. It sits out all winter and I dare not use it when there is ice inside. After greasing the bearings and linkages up with that lard she ran smoothly and I got a few splitting wedges trued up before getting to wet from all the splashing water.

Looking forward to more on your grind stone saga. And remember, keep your nose to the grind stone

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff


Last edited by D Wagstaff; 03/15/13 07:49 AM.
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: D Wagstaff] #30411 03/16/13 07:53 PM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Hi Don and others looking in

Thanks for your comments

I really am not too worried about rust and cracking of the stone at this point, but maybe I should be--I really don't know, maybe it is a point that you might care to expand on

I predrilled the stone with a masonary bit that was just the right size to accomodate the main body of the lags leaving the threads to dig into the stone--seemed to work real well--the stone is somewhat soft and forgiving--I had thought about wood plugs but I have had good luck using this system in the past, it might not work in all situations--wood plugs are good when you are working with real hard stone which might crack--or trying to secure items in a masonary joint which historically would be quite soft, and could fail.

My bearing are going to be white oak, which will suffice for this type of application. The majority of mill shafting of that period rotating at 100 to 125 rpm, used Oak bearings, with a sprinkling of metal babbeted bearings and at times Bronze, it sort of depended on their position in the shafting arrangement, the strain, such as the top bearings near the Turbine linkages, but then there is some deviations in this regard, for instance the shaft coming up from a 1865- 45hp water turbine is 4" in diameter rotating at a max speed of 125rpm is held in place with lignum vitae wood bearings, and the supporting bearing under the spinning runner (the working centre of the turbine)which is quite heavy--spins also on a wood lignum vitae bearing which uses only water as lubrication--now I know that we are straying away from the topic but I just wanted to let those that are looking in that wood bearings were used quite often as bearing material, remembering that overheating was something that needed to be payed attention to--I felt that in my case after pondering the course that I needed to support my rotating 80lb grinding stone oak wood would suffice, especially after you let it intentionally heat up to glass and char the surface in contact with the shaft (this is accomplished by running the shaft dry for a period of time)--a touch of oil periodically is all that should be needed from then on--

Now if there is a heating problem, my solution would be to lift the shaft dig out a little of the wood in the centre of the bottom bearing-- lower the shaft back down, within say a quarter of an inch of bottoming out and the pour in some heated babbet to form a babbet seat--not really a big deal--

I would like to true up the stone which is a bit uneven as it rotates, I have no experience in this regard and need some suggestions from you guys and gals

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30413 03/18/13 11:04 AM
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D Wagstaff Offline
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Hello,
As for truing up the stone, I am using this aluminum carbide brick. It goes slow because my grindstone is not in to good a condition, but there is some obvious progress in knocking off those high spots getting down towards the dip as a result of working at it, though winter is not the best time for this job.


Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: D Wagstaff] #30416 03/19/13 01:45 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Thanks for that tip Don, but where would one get one of those bricks?--I would certainly try one if I had it--

I was wondering about something on the line of a modern coated tool, one that maybe had carbide or industrial diamond as a cutting and truing medium--

There is some really good stone cutting blades out there but how to use one in this instance is the question--

I guess that I need to go back a few centuries when this type of job would be a piece of cake--looking at the Vatican and its ornate carvings--truing up my grindstone looks pretty simple--

When you think of it we have all the power sources, but not the knowledge

A few years ago I had to work with and repair 3 pair of gristmill grinding stones, the ones that actually grind the wheat--well I am going to tell you that stone was unbelievably hard, an ordinary good quality steel bit wouldn't even dent the surface--it was a porous type of stone and it came from France shipped over here in the 1800's--dressing its surface perfectly flat --laying out its furrows and lands,-- balancing, well it wasn't my job but was accomplished by an old gristmiller from Quebec, my work was to install the water turbine the vertical shafting, and then the 3--36" wood pulleys nestled around the central shaft, under the floor--each one of them powering up a pair of stones directly above--well there is more to this story but maybe there is no interest if there is let me know--

enjoy

(I still need advice on truing up my stone--lets hear what other suggestions are out there--)

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30417 03/19/13 02:44 AM
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Hi NH,

If I maybe of assistance, beside being a timber wright, one of my other passions is stone, and all it's many enjoyments. I just love the stuff, from climbing it to carving, if we get a good job, I enjoy carving and dressing the stone plinths on a job, as much as the timber work, and rarely I get to carve joints in stone, like scarfs, which is just so fun!!! grin

I have dress a number of grist stone in my day and even helped carve a replacement for one. So much fun. I helped make a sharpening stone, (Arkansas hard sand stone) many years ago. It sat in a wood frame with all wood mechanicals and foot treadle for power. It was the beginning of another passion.

Now "dressing" and "balancing" the stone is critical for good operation, as you well know. Doing this by hand is arduous work, to say the least, especially without glazing or "burning" the stone. Spinning the stone while being kept moist and using a harder stone to ware down the high spots. Uhg! That is grunt work on a fresh stone.

Now, if you are not a purest, and want to get the job done in minutes, (if not seconds,) there is a stone trade trick to doing it. It is a little intimidating, but is not as bad as it sounds. You will need a 4" electric angle grinder and a diamond grinding disk used in stone carving. In a pinch, you can use a carborundum grinding stone wheel made for the electric angle grinder. Please note these can fragment and break if not of better quality and also burn the grind stone you are dressing. Below are some of my favorite suppliers, in order of favorites, should you want to pursue the craft further.

http://www.trowandholden.com/

http://www.granitecitytoolvt.com/home.htm

http://www.granitecitytool.com/

Please give me a ring, should you want to talk about it, or perhaps borrow a diamond carving disc for your grinder.

Best of luck,

jay


Last edited by Jay White Cloud; 03/19/13 02:50 AM.
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Jay White Cloud] #30424 03/20/13 02:02 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Hi Jay:

Thanks for coming in with conversation and some suggestions for me to consider

Those are great web sites to visit I really enjoyed the journey and just might consider a purchase to further my project--we will see--

One thing that I was thinking about was a stone cutting abrasive belt for my belt sander--don't know if they make such a thing--maybe someone out there knows??--I know that just a regular belt cuts the stone quite easily--maybe someone will comment further--

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #30425 03/20/13 02:09 AM
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There is, and they do. It is only slightly slower method than using an angle grinder. It just doesn't seem to do as good a job??? However, you may find it useful to try.

Regards,

jay

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