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tearing down old barns #31139 10/12/13 03:39 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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I'll hopefully have 1 or 2 old barns to tear down this fall and winter, one has 1 wing standing strong, but another laying on the ground (the foundation failed and it was pulled down recently) The other has a sag at one gable end but is otherwise sound (mostly good roof yet)
Looking for some advice on this. I'll be salvaging as many of the beams as I can and reusing them on another building -but don't need to save the joinery, etc. as I will not be reassembling a barn in the same conflagration.

I'll try and get some pictures of the barns as things develop


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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31140 10/12/13 11:31 AM
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Keep the parts under cover. An old trailer might be cheap or free and maybe movable.

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: TIMBEAL] #31147 10/14/13 06:24 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Just curious as to what types of rigs and equipment people have used to disassemble barns like this?


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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31148 10/14/13 08:11 PM
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If you are full commercial deconstruction as we are (12 barns and counting this year) you need a crew of 6 minimum (usually 12), the largest "telescopic rotating forklift" you can rent (or own), a minimum 65' crane, and a man lift, and related deconstruction tools-which includes all the modern advance rigging equipment, this gets the architecture documented, down, and shipped-offloaded in 5 to 10 days.

For the "slow and steady" approach, one or two folks can get the job done in about 2 months full time work for the average frame. You will still need the rigging equipment and skill to use it (safety) and average six bucks of scaffold, and/or shear legs for lowering.

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: Jay White Cloud] #31149 10/14/13 08:15 PM
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I forgot, don't use plastic of any kind to cover you frame...it will promote decomp./mold unless attached to a framework that does not touch the frame. Metal sheeting is best, and you do not what UV photodamage as well, so protect from direct light.

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: Jay White Cloud] #31150 10/14/13 08:34 PM
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When I did this (young, learning, my formative years in timber framing) we had a crew of 4-6. 2 skilled. 2 laborers. 2 in between - carpenters or such.

Equipment really depends on what you are after, and what the job is. Sheathing? Roofing? Survey and save? Lots of variables. We did a lot with just willpower and young muscle. Always had a crane to lower bents.

Lots of straps, come alongs. Drill bits of every size and shape and length. Crow bars, levers, pipes, and then safety rigging and harnesses. For slate and siding work we had a lots of staging and scaffolding for the length of a typical barn (E Pa and W Nj and sometimes into MD and OH) - probably enough for 40' x 3 sets high.

And a tetanus booster. Rain gear. And lots of overalls. Tore up so many pair of Carharts in the 6 months I was focused on this type of work.

We hired out trucking / shipping / roll off dumpsters.


Good fun in my youth.


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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: bmike] #31151 10/14/13 08:35 PM
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For documentation we drew everything on waterproof paper. Now I would use a digicam and SketchUp.

Last edited by bmike; 10/14/13 08:35 PM.

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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: bmike] #31152 10/14/13 08:48 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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The barns are not going to be surveyed and saved in their original state. Both of them are planned to be torn down anyway, and I am trying to save as much material as I can get for repurposing and reusing in new structures wherever possible. Siding, roofing, etc. will be saved as much as possible, timbers will be cut out and reused in a new frame. I'll take lots of pictures to document what was, but won't be reassembling.

What my aim was is to find a barn that the owner did not want anymore but is still in decent enough shape to provide some sound timbers. I've found 2 that are slated for demolition anyway, so they are perfect candidates for me.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31153 10/14/13 08:53 PM
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njbarn-bent by mbeganyi, on Flickr


njbarn-deraising1 by mbeganyi, on Flickr


DL, reusing is a good thing too. Certainly taking care to remove siding / flooring / etc. will take labor and care and love, depending on what kind of yield you want.

And the re-joining into a new structure is possible, depending on the existing joiner and engineering requirements.

Doug Fir main house to the right, salvaged and re-sawn barn timber to the left, for the master bedroom upstairs, and a gym downstairs (left rough hewn). My first compound roof while working with Rudy Christian.


cs-top1 by mbeganyi, on Flickr


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: bmike] #31155 10/17/13 01:18 AM
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Hi D L;

Salvaging is much easier than relocating. You will be faced with your own particular costs and safety issues. The more you take them down in the opposite sequence they went up the more salvage you will get, such as stripping the roofing will allow you to salvage more of the boards without breaking them.

I have seen scavengers take down barns with not much more than a chain saw and pry bar, but to work carefully and safely I think you need a man-lift for only a day with careful planning or maybe a week which allows for some bad weather and more than just using it for the framing. A skid-steer is handy for loading out timbers, again careful planning can minimize rental time such as having piles of timbers you can drive to ready to go, you do not necessarily need to have a machine sitting around while pulling nails. You may want to find a machine with demolition tires to avoid flat tires.

Clean-up is another consideration. If you need to pile and burn the debris or load it out for disposal, nothing beats an excavator, although a bulldozer can make and move piles, too. Our local Kubota dealer has a mini excavator you can also put forks on so it could carry and load timbers and do cleanup work after putting the bucket back on (a thumb helps a lot). Again, planning minimizes machine time such as by making piles of debris as the material is generated where they can be burned so they do not need to be moved. This depends on the proximity to other buildings, etc.

You should be able to know what the longest timbers will be. We have moved 40' timbers on a pickup truck but generally if you have timbers that long you should count on using a tractor-trailer. Efficiently stacking the materials on trailers in a way they cannot shift and come off is very important.

Just as a reference there was a discussion about dis-assembly techniques in a previous thread: http://forums.tfguild.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=13871&page=1

Safety is the biggest problem. If you have more specific questions post them, but I only check the forum randomly these days.

Hope this helps;
Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: tearing down old barns [Re: Housewright] #31234 10/31/13 04:14 PM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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I'm looking into the idea of assembling a small crane for lifting and moving heavy timbers, especially since I have just learned of a barn going down reportedly with massive 65' white oak timbers, with exceptionally large cross sections.

I don't really want a simple gyn pole type structure, something more along the lines of sheerlegs, derricks, or a rudimentary crane, even looking into the possibility of rigging up a late Medieval type pivoting crane, which would be extremely advantageous when working alone.

Which raises the question, Jay is your 'Scaffold Crane' system in fact a modular lifting Derrick? A Derrick being a tower assembly for the purpose of moving objects vertically, but incapable of horizontal movement.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
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Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31235 10/31/13 08:22 PM
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Hi David,

I don't have photos or drawings, but you can use the armature of a scaffold crane to rig a jib or boom off of. You really need to be careful with your side loads, and destabilizing the tower, clear ingress and egress points and run some mock trial lifts.

As for recommending this, I can't. I would call this advanced rigging, and lifting and lowering the beams is going to stretch your skills as it is without adding moving a load horizontally in a radius. I say that out of concern, but know I did some pretty "hair brained" things at times in my life...learned much from them too. If you venture into this solo folly of rigging beyond your skill set (I recommend not but I can't talk I still do it) remember this.

Keep everyone including pets away.

Let folks know what you are doing but DO NOT let them help if they don't have rigging skill...they can get in the way, getting you and themselves hurt.

have clear escape routes planned.

ALL systems mush have a redundant backup system that can take the full load you are moving.

ALL systems must be escapable.

ALL systems must be stoppable at any point in the move and able to hold the load safely.

Know your weakest link and understand its strain capacity must be a minimum of 10:1 (15:1 is better) never exceed 5:1 as some suggest using for none live load.

Readers if I have forgot anything (besides don't do it) chime in...

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31237 10/31/13 08:22 PM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Hi David,

I don't have photos or drawings, but you can use the armature of a scaffold crane to rig a jib or boom off of. You really need to be careful with your side loads, and destabilizing the tower, clear ingress and egress points and run some mock trial lifts.

As for recommending this, I can't. I would call this advanced rigging, and lifting and lowering the beams is going to stretch your skills as it is without adding moving a load horizontally in a radius. I say that out of concern, but know I did some pretty "hair brained" things at times in my life...learned much from them too. If you venture into this solo folly of rigging beyond your skill set (I recommend not but I can't talk I still do it) remember this.

Keep everyone including pets away.

Let folks know what you are doing but DO NOT let them help if they don't have rigging skill...they can get in the way, getting you and themselves hurt.

have clear escape routes planned.

ALL systems mush have a redundant backup system that can take the full load you are moving.

ALL systems must be escapable.

ALL systems must be stoppable at any point in the move and able to hold the load safely.

Know your weakest link and understand its strain capacity must be a minimum of 10:1 (15:1 is better) never exceed 5:1 as some suggest using for none live load.

Readers if I have forgot anything (besides don't do it) chime in...

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: D L Bahler] #31238 10/31/13 08:22 PM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Hi David,

I don't have photos or drawings, but you can use the armature of a scaffold crane to rig a jib or boom off of. You really need to be careful with your side loads, and destabilizing the tower, clear ingress and egress points and run some mock trial lifts.

As for recommending this, I can't. I would call this advanced rigging, and lifting and lowering the beams is going to stretch your skills as it is without adding moving a load horizontally in a radius. I say that out of concern, but know I did some pretty "hair brained" things at times in my life...learned much from them too. If you venture into this solo folly of rigging beyond your skill set (I recommend not but I can't talk I still do it) remember this.

Keep everyone including pets away.

Let folks know what you are doing but DO NOT let them help if they don't have rigging skill...they can get in the way, getting you and themselves hurt.

have clear escape routes planned.

ALL systems mush have a redundant backup system that can take the full load you are moving.

ALL systems must be escapable.

ALL systems must be stoppable at any point in the move and able to hold the load safely.

Know your weakest link and understand its strain capacity must be a minimum of 10:1 (15:1 is better) never exceed 5:1 as some suggest using for none live load.

Readers if I have forgot anything (besides don't do it) chime in...

Re: tearing down old barns [Re: Jay White Cloud] #31352 11/22/13 03:07 AM
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D L Bahler Offline OP
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Goin to look at a barn tomorrow. Old dairy barn, concrete block milk house and pad on the back side, the farmer wants to know how much to get the land clear so he can till it. I'll take lots of pictures, it's a nice old barn but badly damaged in the recent high winds (80+mph gusts...)

One gable wall is torn lose, I might pull it off and use timber to rig a boom crane I can run off a backhoe to get the rafters off. The roof is in bad shape.


Was de eine ilüchtet isch für angeri villech nid so klar.
http://riegelbau.wordpress.com/
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