As many of you know, I am well studied in the timber and log building traditions of the Swiss Canton of Bern -my family being from the border region between these two building styles. Many of you also know I am working on a number of projects to introduce something of these methods into this country -building a log structure currently, a timber frame planned as the next project, and also preparing a book on the subject.

A big part of my angle is this: There is a lot out there in this world of ours. So many building styles, so many approaches to log and timber building. I think we should be aware of these and I like to see when carpenters apply influences from other cultures in their work. Unfortunately, it seems at the moment that primarily carpenters have only looked to the east Asian sources. Not that there is anything wrong with Asian carpentry, just that there is so much more we could look at.

The Poland project was good. Though I could not personally be involved, I can see how the knowledge of many was expanded, and new skillsets were developed. Let's keep that ball rolling, I say.

But then the question arises, how far SHOULD we take it? There are those out there who do believe that we should be building in whatever style is historic to our region, and there is certainly validity to that point. However, for a guy like me, I have a connection to a different heritage.

I'd be interested in hearing some different views on this. What do you all think? what are your opinions of incorporating old world principles into your work and, in a way, diverging from the 'normal' by doing so?

hello everyone tonight

Hi DL

I like your line of thought, and enjoy your posts very much

I for one worked my whole life trying to preserve the traditions here just in Upper Canada and as I look back in retrospect, I think that I have did a small part of carrying on the traditions in a fashion.

One thing that seemed to happen to me was--and this was probably due to where I just happened to get slotted into life--my interests seemed to broaden out as time passed by

I had to make a living while this was going on, and to some degree that sort of dictated to what degree I could be involved in my dream so to speak

It appears to me that this may be happening to you a bit as you are becoming more aware of the size and scope of the way the different areas of the world developed their building styles

This is great but I encourage you to continue to be very good in what you seem to be very good at, and don't spread yourself too thinly

One thing that I have come to realize as I slowly travelled the road of life was "Be good at what you do"--(an old saying from my father)-- try and understand everyone else, including those that have passed,-- the ones working in the near past,-- the present and the young generation coming along

Upper Canada woodworking traditions were shaped by many different cultures, being that this areas just happened to de a depository of displaced people from many different areas of the settled world. This fact, I seemed to slowly become aware of as the years rolled along,

I ran into many very interesting people, like those from the TF Guild, especially the TTRAG group whom I respect highly, kept my interest, who were interested in hearing what I had to say, and at times reminded me of some of my shortfalls.

From these chance meetings I feel that we have all benefitted, and I will remain in awe of the value of the internet, because it seems to be a real valuable means of expanding everyone's knowledge of the many cultures and their practices.

today more than at any other time in history we can all pick out and integrate unusual aspects, techniques, and materials to use in future development(s)--this probably will be noticeable in the next 100 years here in North America,

because of your posts, and the posts of many others as they passed through my chat page sharing their knowledge and photos to back things up, everyone will continue to expand their knowledge base as we move into the future

I really don't know if this line of thought is what you are looking for, but it is my take on things

Keep up the good work, I am sure many enjoy your posts

NH

Hi Richard,

This is a very insightful and diplomatic contribution towards the adoption or otherwise of regional timber-frame practices.

Ken Hume

I certainly agree with the advice, be good at what you do. It's something we easily forget in this modern world where everything is right at out fingertips. But at the same time, we need to be sure what we do is worth being good at.

A lot of my viewpoint is along the lines of what you expressed,in that there is a FUTURE of all of this. As timber framers we look to the past, and that's is good. Inasmuch as it is much broader, I think the past is far more important to the future than is the present. The present is fleeting and its lasting impact unknowable. The past is proven and known and its legacy established. We can look on it and see clearly, which we cannot do for the present.

But timber framing itself needs not to get stuck in a rut as in, 'this is the way great great great great grandfather Amos built his barn in 1842, so by golly that's how I'm gonna build mine.'
But should be willing to adapt (speaking of the craft as a fluid, animate thing)

A lot of my approach to foreign methods is to say, 'look here, we have a culture that in many ways has faced a lot of the challenges that are presented to the modern timber and log builders in America today. The only thing is, they faced these problems a few centuries ago and their solutions have been tried, tested, and proven effective. Here there is a valuable lesson for us to learn.

Then of course there is my bias. I am Swiss. I am Bernese. That's my heritage, it's what I know. I have a lot of the same bias toward the methods I know that many of you have toward your familiar American or Canadian forms. But I do think there is value in comparison.

A lot of my conclusion for myself is, like Richard says, be good at what you do.
For me that means, I am going to build structures the way I know them, the way I feel is best. That means my frames are going to follow Swiss designs in terms of joinery, frame layout, etc. and my log structures are going to be built like Oberland Chalets. And I am going to teach other people about timber framing, but teach them what I know.

hello everyone tonight

Hi Ken

always nice to hear from you, and thanks for the comment

your posts are also very educational and interesting, and from what I can see deal mainly with early English architecture, which I find very interesting indeed-your country is lucky to have you and your son taking such an interest in its long past history

I would like to add here the news that I received that Peter John Stokes has passed away, for those of you who do not know him, he was a well know historical architect here in Ontario and was the driving force during the establishment of UCV, and the restoration of its many structures. Him and his wife were both from England, and carried a lot of the English traits with them

I had the good fortune of working with him both during and after the opening of the site, and I must say that I believe because of my association with him, it broadened my knowledge not only of timber framing but historic water powered mills, and the exteriors and interiors of period homes dating to the mid 1800's

NH

So what is our real origin anyway?

Just about every book on the subject of timber framing likes to try and dabble in where our craft started, and most seem to work from the same conclusion. It seems to be widely accepted that our European timber framing evolved over a few centuries from primitive earth-bound post construction gradually over time giving rise to the proper braced frame.

Only problem is, that doesn't actually make a whole lot of sense in a lot of cases.

I've learned in my studies that a lot of the assumptions we have made as to our origins are false -even right down to our ethnic makeup. As Swiss, for example, I have very little Germanic blood in me at all. As southern Bernese particularly, it seems I might not even have that much Indo European blood really.

The same goes for our buildings. For centuries, since the Middle Ages in fact, we've just assumed our timber frames came from Alemannic sources. Now we've found out things are different, they have found timber frames of the same profile as our Medieval ones from much earlier, like 3000 years earlier than they should have. We're talking 2500 BC. Seems the Alemanni stole the style from those who lived here before, and did a fairly good job of spreading it out wherever they happened to go. But that's really ground breaking to think we have a sophisticated timber framing tradition going back over 4000 years, maybe further. It makes you wonder, where DID this all come from.

See we've got this problem with the Germanic model. The things is, the Scandinavians are originally log builders, not timber framers or post builders. But for some reason when the Germanic tribes migrated throughout the continent, they just switched to rudimentary framing practice.

The reason, I think, is not that they didn't know anything about building -they knew a great deal in fact- but really that they weren't building permanent structures. They weren't good at farming, and they would migrate every 60 years or so (I forget the exact time off the top of my head) they had a rapidly growing population and wouldn't figure out sustainable agriculture for a few centuries.

But once they did settle down, they needed to figure things out again. So all of the sudden at a point in the middle of the Middle Ages, timber framing explodes all across Europe in those places that had been overtaken by the Germans during the centuries before...

Examing our Bernese traditions, it becomes clear there is a very close connection to the log building traditions of the neighboring Alpine regions. It's hard to say just how connected they are. Is timber framing in Switzerland in fact descended from log building? If it is, the two styles diverged so long ago that we can't really say anything for certain.
Swiss timber framing all used to be of the frame and plank variety, where heavy uprights would contain horizontal planks set into grooves. Unless these structures are immensely large, bracing is unnecessary in the walls (even then, it's probably unnecessary) It is very easy to see how this is derived from the stacking of logs. In fact, a very common and very old shortcut in the log building cultures is to place stout uprights at the corners, saving the need of cutting the complex corner joints.
Most importantly, where space is not so limited outside of the mountains you often want to build large structures. With all of this in mind, I see the heavy frame and plank construction common to much of Switzerland north of the Alps to be a very natural evolution away from the more limited methods of log building. It is simply a case of adapting the methods to the needs presented.

To explain these posts,

I am a big fan of Northern Hewer's excessively long thread. I like what it has become, just a long conversation between him and everyone else who happens to drop by. I like to talk about things to, so I've sort of decided to strike up my own conversation. That is, I'll just go here with thought's i'd like to present to the community here rather than starting a new thread all the time.

hello everyone tonight

Hi DL

You might have a hard sell, but it is a free world and you certainly can construct buildings following past century's practices as long as it no doubt conforms to local codes, and there is a demand for the style and look.

I personally do not think that you would be comfortable hybridizing an old style, it would be like my boss saying to me "let us build a 3 bay barn, but how about changing the interior to accommodate a pipeline milking unit"

I really don't know what the answer is, but for me I enjoyed trying to preserve building styles that were disappearing rapidly, not many had that opportunity

NH

Thanks Richard for the input

I'm not suggesting a hybridization as much as using the methods I know without applying the regionally specific architectural features. I could make 'American' style structures with the style of framing I know.