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Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: TIMBEAL] #31524 12/21/13 02:23 AM
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bmike Offline
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Money no object?

1.5" framing chisel (in the toolbox now)
Slick (in the toolbox now)
Corner chisel (in the tool box now)
Mafell mortiser (I had a makita - liked it and it offered options for unique applications and for smaller mortises - bit the Mafell can't be beat for fast, accurate mortises in a production setting)
Or
Mint condition Miller Falls with bits - this would be sweet


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
www.mikebeganyi.com
Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: bmike] #31525 12/21/13 02:38 AM
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tmc Offline OP
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I will be working 4x8 timbers for trusses. Posts will be 8x8. Beams will be 8x12. All poplar.
I thought the largest mortise would be 2x8x12 in the beams to post tenons.
What would each framer who reads this suggest a novice use for mortising the various size timbers I will be working with?
The trusses are going to be a king post style constructed as simply as possible (I'm not completely crazy to try curves with no experience). No fancy joinery to mount trusses on top of beams, just large screws.

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: tmc] #31526 12/21/13 02:41 AM
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tmc Offline OP
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What mortiser takes most of the guesswork out of the process, making it as idiot-proof as possible for me?

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: tmc] #31528 12/21/13 05:17 AM
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Roger Nair Offline
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No tool deals with guesswork. Careful design and layout is key. The best crash course for building basic skills is in a workshop by the Guild. The machines just cut what they are pointed towards. What you know and what you are secure in comes with work.

So rate the tools

I believe the Makita chain mortiser is the most difficult tool. End grain cutting is rough and sometimes catchy with tear out. the depth of cut is varies in the mortise end to end. The clamps seem to me less than ideal. It's a gizmo.

Mafell chain mortiser is near perfect. Three times the price of Makita. It takes professional commitment to justify purchase.

Makita hollow chisel is the most mechanically controllable. Very robust clamps, x - y controls, stops, flat bottom cuts and drill press feed. Unlike chainsaw machines where the carpenter must dominate the tool and push, with the chisel mortiser the carpenter is not entwined when operating, has distance and good sight. Safety with control. Will cut poplar without problem.

I am not just saying this because I have a tool to sell, I've said the same for years

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: Roger Nair] #31537 12/22/13 01:22 AM
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tmc Offline OP
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Hi Roger,
The other day you mentioned Makita chain mortiser being catchy on end grain. My pavilion will have 4 posts, 4 beams, 8 braces, and 5 trusses. I don't see any end grain cuts unless I'm missing something.
Nothing against your for-sale chisel mortiser but one thing is I hope to spend a lot less than $1,500 on whatever mortiser I end up buying. I have already spent almost 2k on the timbers, at least 2k on mostly tools and some hardware not including the tools I already owned that will come into play, I'll have to spend 1-3k on the foundation depending on if I do that myself which depends on how much money I have when it's time to pour, I'll spend at least another 1k on T&G 2 x 6 roof decking and shingle or steel plus misc. materials for roof....so I really need to hope for a lot for a little when it comes to the mortiser. I don't mind the clean-up chisel work on the mortises as I have my mind set on my ability to build this right. At the same time, I have to try to expedite the labor processes because I will not have the time I wish I could to devote to this project within a reasonable timeframe unless I can speed up the joinery process. I know once everything is cut I will have the frame up in a day.
Anyway....you sound like a pro in the field so I value your opinion which is why I ask if the makita would be a good tool for this. Like a lot of other people I don't make a lot at my job and I'm in debt up to the eyeballs of they guy standing on my head so I will probably have to sell most if not all the big money tools when I'm done with this project. I'd like to keep them to eventually build an addition before I get too old if I can come up with the financing but that may not be possible.
I might have to sell the 3k+ worth of Sorby turning tools, my Delta 1442 lathe, and my Woodsmith portable bandsaw to help pay for some of this project but I've never tried to sell any of my tools before and don't know what luck I might have. All my turning tools have from no hours to 2 hours use as I jumped into the hobby with great expectations and quickly found I have to work too many hours to pay the living expenses.
This timber framing project may be the last chance I have before getting too old to do the heavy work and I have wanted to do this since I was able to move out to the country 4 years ago after 50 years of living in crappy areas around Chicago and northwest Indiana.
I guess I've babbled long enough for now so if you know someone who wants to buy what I can sell and/or you can give me more leads on mortisers I might be able to afford, let me know. I appreciate any help I can get.
One last question for now: I have probably over-engineered the post brackets I have designed to anchor to the foundation and I am still looking for a local price for someone to fabricate them as I am not a welder and don't have the tools necessary for heavy steel fabrication. My question is do you know where I can buy brackets with the proper structural qualities for four 8 x 8 posts supporting a 18' x 22' pavilion roof? I haven't seen anything online that looks right but maybe I'm using the wrong search terminology.
Thanks again,
Terry McQuade

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: tmc] #31538 12/22/13 01:59 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Find a local welding shop that does fabrication, look at heavy equipment shops, they usually have fabricator on hand. If it is not a busy time for them they will appreciate the work. A good machine shop is another chance.

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: tmc] #31541 12/22/13 04:22 AM
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Roger Nair Offline
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We have several misunderstandings. On end grain, I referring to grain in the mortise. 2nd on the scale and budget of your project, I think it would be best to forget mortisers and use some variety of drill and chisel for mortising. Could it be possible to outfit by looking local for vintage tools? Do you already have a 1/2 inch drill motor?

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: Roger Nair] #31543 12/22/13 01:41 PM
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tmc Offline OP
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Roger, can't I just do test holes in scrap to see how far inside the cut line to stay and compensate for chain chatter (also adjust the chain properly)?
I would probably have no problem hogging out the bulk of the mortises with my Bosch 1/2" drill and whatever best bits I could afford…except I can't wrap my head around creating a proper clean angle cut for a half dovetail mortise (I think that's the right term) which I thought would be a good idea to use in the sides of the posts mortises where my beams parallel to the trusses will connect lower than the bearing beams.
Let me know if my descriptions make sense. I can post rough drawings I made if I could find the "File Manager" button this websites FAQs says to use for attaching files.

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: tmc] #31544 12/22/13 01:56 PM
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I bore the half dovetail to the shortest length, clean that out and then rip the slopes with a hand saw, two cuts on the sides of the mortice. Use the trusty corner chisel to cut V-cuts and finish with a chisel making sure the top and bottom contact, You want this slope to be as flat as you can get it. If you are using a wedge, which you should, you will have a slope on both ends of the mortice. Take care on the wedge side where the wedge protrudes from the timber to ease the exit face, for if you don't you risk lifting material off the timber as the wedge tightens. That may not be clear until you see it happen.

Re: I need a chain mortiser [Re: TIMBEAL] #31546 12/22/13 02:21 PM
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tmc Offline OP
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Tim, thanks for chiming in. I don't think I'm getting a mental picture of how you get a handsaw into a 2" wide mortise? I wonder if my Fein multitool flush cutter could ease this process if I could find or fabricate a blade that wouldn't cut wider than the mortise?
I know the artistry of traditional timber framing is in the use of hand tools to create clean tight joints and I wish I could have the time to do it all that way. But I am self employed as a low man on the totem pole in the textbook publishing industry and I know we will get busy in the spring, maybe late spring, and I will have deadlines that have to be met if I am to earn a living. This is the reason I can't stress enough my need to expedite all labor operations. I've always wanted to build this myself having worked in construction for 30+ years prior to getting a desk job. I know I have the capabilities to do a good job on this. I just have to maximize my output while minimizing the time involved. Also, I don't want to risk the timbers having too much time to twist and bw and do what timber will before it is put in its final position.

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