The guild is currently on life support and fading fast. I am a sixteen year veteran with the guild and a life time member. I think we need to have a brisk discussion of what we as members can do to either save our guild or decide what and how we can further the craft post mortem. The board has had several years to get the guild affairs in order since the down turn in the market. I like Joel McCarty and still think of him every time I think of the guild. He was a good front man for the guild. Executive directors come and go and should not be blamed for the guilds current condition. Every year we elect new board members and with the overlap in terms we keep continuity in leadership. The board is tasked with being at the helm and I hold past and current boards responsible for the mess the guild is in now. I think it is now time for a major shakeup of the guild. I feel the only duty on a national level is to publish scantlings and the journal. The guild needs to be broken up into regional groups with its own BOD and be more accountable to the area’s they serve. This will encourage more regional projects, regional education, and local fund raising and support. On a national level maybe send one regional director to represent the region. I understand that the guild has international members and each area could have its own affiliation related to the guild. In looking at the 2012 audit, membership accounted for $116,391 and publications $135, 470. Greatly lower dues on a regional level and add on a magazine subscription to cover the $135,470. Overall the dues will be higher to start with but once the regions get their acts together and start projects to generate revenues these expenses will come down. If you look at the audit you see that conferences and workshops generated $149,151 and cost $236, 963 the same thing in 2011. It’s no wonder why the guild is in such poor shape. The regional meeting s cost a fraction of this and is sponsor supported. I think a good healthy debate wills if nothing else let the BOD know what the general rank and file membership think.

Me personally I would say if the guild dies, we start over.

I think the answer to our problem is education.

Not saying we are uneducated, but perhaps we need to turn our focus on education -not just of the guild members, but of the public.

Look at organizations like Heartwood, Fox Maple, etc. These folks are doing a good job at educating people -often people who want to learn out of pure curiosity.

I also look at an organization I know fairly well -Holzbau Schweiz- This is, in a way, the Swiss equivalent of the Timber Framers Guild. They have a national organization that exists to help professionals in the wood-building profession (timber framing and log building) but also have regional branches that exist mostly to educate young people in the practices, largely to ensure that traditional and sound practices survive.

I'd like to see an organization with a focus more like this, although I know it's not all what I want. I'd like to see a timber framers guild with a focus on training carpenters. And guess what, I feel as if doing this would really result in what the guild has wanted all along, a revival of traditional skills.

I think the best way to do this would be to do like Holzbau Schweiz has done, organize sectional and regional divisions that use local instructors to teach local people, probably teaching them the local traditions. Holzbau Schwiez, for exxample, has various 'Secktionen' or sections -one such, Sektion Berner Oberland, is located in that region, and has a school to educate young carpenters on the building customs from that region. They have local carpenters supporting the organization that also give the school opportunity to have students come and see the work -the shop work, the on site work, etc. And it works quite well. I know all this because a good friend of mine works in the organization.

We don't have to do things like this, but I think it is a good place to look. I really like how this organization works. A major purpose for their existence is to preserve the traditions in an age where modern convenience might cause young carpenters to take shortcuts and abandon the old practices -like what happened in the US a century ago.

If the guild doesn't do this, maybe we should take the initiative and organize it ourselves. Not side stepping the guild, but maybe making an organization that could work with the guild.

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for starting a discussion.

DL - do you participate in the Apprenticeship and Journeyworker Program?

-Mike

Mike,

No I don't. I don't know if what I do would qualify, since I don't do things with the North American methods. Also what I am describing would exlude me from being able to actively participate any any kind of an educating role, since my expertise is outside of the realm of what I think this should be focusing on.

Am I correct in thinking the Apprenticeship program relies on timber frame shops to take on a student and teach him through work? Am I also right in thinking the program is not recognized by the US government?

DL -

A good start here:

http://www.tfguild.org/apprenticeship

It is recognized by the Gov.

I do think the vision of education is important. But I'm not going to speak now. Just listen, if others chime in here.

-Mike

OK I checked out the documentation. I was mistaken, it is federally recognized.

Does the Apprenticeship program involve any sort of classroom education, or is it shop-based.

The Holzbau-Schweiz is similar to an apprenticeship program. Basically it is a trade-based program that works within the existing Swiss education system. It's a 3-year 'education' that includes coursework in the school -in the case of Holzbau Berner Oberland the school is in the city of Interlaken- and hands on experience with a participating firm. Note that these firms do not strictly practice the methods taught by the school, they also use modern methods like concrete and steel construction.
I am not sure if it is classed as such, but it would be in the Swiss system a 'Hochschul' in Switzerland after primary education, you go either to a 'Hochshul' or to the University. The Hochschul is where you learn a trade like carpentry, blacksmithing, baking, etc. The University is where you learn to be something like a doctor, engineer, etc.

I personally feel like we should maybe expand what we offer if we wish to be successful. Holzbau Schweiz works because their traditions are common and widespread throughout most of the country. We can't work like them, because there are not enough timber framers around.

But we do have more things we could ring under the umbrella, like log building for example, or bridge carpentry.

I think if we'd have a system that included an education basis with classroom (or online course) instruction and real-world work with a broad basis, we might be able to expand our reach.

I think it would also be good to have something somewhat less than the apprenticeship program -because lets face it, Americans don't like to commit to things- Maybe something that is accumulative.

Holzbau-Schweiz sounds similar to the French Compagnon system. Essentially you either go to college and work your way through a series of diplomas to become a "qualified" carpenter (School system) or you join the Compagnons de Devoir and train with one or more companies / carpenters. Traditionally this culminated in a "tour de France" where you would travel around the country learning with master builders in different areas in order to learn the full range of building styles and methods used in France. The program still runs, and I believe, still operates on the same principles.

Tedd Benson (not sure if he's still an active member of the guild) has a lot of experience of this system, having trained at least one Compagnon that I'm aware of.

Not sure if this helps the discussion at all mind.

Jon,

it's kind of similar. It was actually created to provide something sort of similar to the French and German guild systems. The Swiss have never had and still do not have a guild system like other European countries. The closest thing is town guilds, but these are important only in the cities like Zürich, Bern, Basel, etc. and don't matter that much in the country and villages. But, you don't have to go through the program, not everybody is a part of the guilds, and really probably a very good portion of good carpenters aren't affiliated. The 'Master' carpenters around toady didn't learn from this or any other organization, they learned from their parents or from experienced carpenters that they worked for, much like things work in America with most carpentry professionals.

What I like about this system is that their primary existence is to promote the traditional practices in the public sector and to support those who have such businesses, also to get carpenters to work together and help each other.

I don't know how much the guild does to help timber framers, to promote the art by upholding its constituents.

I think it would be great if we have a system that people could come to who are looking for a timber framer (or log builder, maybe), and this system could help them sort through the options and find what they are looking for -express up front the methods, connections to tradition, etc. used by a timber framer.

Maybe I’m in the minority. I don’t like the idea of the apprentice program. The whole approach has been to create a class of timber framers that are “Qualified” to timber frame. Somewhere in the past I had seen a purposed standard that the guild was working on for architects to add to their drawings that required a journeyman or higher certified framer. The guild would also require its instructors to also be journeyman timber framers. In my 16 years I have seen poor timber framers, good timber framers and great timber framers. What makes a great timber framer is not that he knows cad or design or whether he can french scribe or knows a damn thing about forest management. For the bulk of the rank in file jobs out there quality work and being able to read a set of plans and accurately produce the designers work. I personally think the best teacher is a desire to learn. If a person wants to learn compound he will read, google and find someone to teach him. Not all timber framers are cut out for advanced timber framing but do quality work. That shouldn’t keep them from practicing the craft. I think the apprentice program leads to a two tier system splits out group into the haves and have not’s.