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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: D L Bahler] #31296 11/09/13 02:43 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

well DL it is nice to hear your reminiscences of times gone by, and things that happened, didn't happen and what should have happened.

Good luck with your pursuits, your homeland is lucky for your interest and dedication in regards to preserving the old ways

I will be following your threads with interest

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31386 12/01/13 03:07 PM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Well I am a little under the weather right now, may be scarce here on my favorite place for a while

Hope everyone is heading for a very merry Christmas, good health-(which is a wonderful thing) and a prosperous new year

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31540 12/22/13 02:27 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Well back again--

been on DL's chat site here on the forum, been having a real good chat back and forth, I recommend that you all should visit it, for a real journey into the past-In my opinion DL is very knowledgeable in Swiss and German building techniques

it was interesting that there seemed to be a consensus that those poor old farmers, no matter where they live or what country they live in, seem to be just a little bit smarter than many may think

One must remember that farmers didn't just work the land then but had to be good at many other things and one was to learn from their parents the old ways--and as the generations rolled along always new ideas were adapted IF the ideas were of value

Some of these ideas came from other cultures, and which ever culture was the predominating one, those ideas and techniques also seemed to dominate

Take saw mills many times were operated in the off seasons by local farmers.

These mills with reciprocating vertical blades referred to as "Mulley" mills slowly succummed to circular blades, but only when a reliable motive power was developed--the building housing these crude but efficient machines, were constructed with the hewn timbers from local farm lots

Just alittle pitch here for those hardy people that developed the lands all over the planet

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31612 12/24/13 01:47 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello everyone tonight

To continue with my line of thought--

I realize that things keep changing and educating and teaching each generation of aspiring tradespeople also changes, I was fortunate to be able to have had hands on teaching from my father, this format is slowly ending for many reasons.

Through the years I have run across many very wonderful people from many areas of the globe, here in Ontario the Mennonites are struggling to hang on to their Old ways

Talking to some of the older folk visiting the UCV site, I felt a yearning in their hearts as they watched me hewing timber, and once in a while as I rested and struck up a conversation, they wholeheartedly admitted they were losing the old ways and methods and really didn't know how to stop it

The admissions usually covered hewing and timberframing, but I am sure there were many other areas also threatened

I sort of got the feeling that they felt that they should be doing more but were at a loss to know what to do

One thing that they did say was that it was wonderful that The UCV site was trying to retain the old methods, and during the course of the conversation it was hard for me to not let the old folk take the axe and go to work

In my opinion timberframing has changed so much as it tries to satisfy the general public that the framers need the modern computers to calculate and lay out their cuts

I really don't think that Guild conferences/workshops should stray too far away from the guiding light--let your senses know what I mean

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31613 12/24/13 02:01 AM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Thanks Richard for the story

I always perk up when someone mentions the Mennonites. Truth is, that is true we are losing our old ways. In our community the Amish stopped timber framing some time ago, and this is happening in many other places as well.

We have the debate all the time, what is worth holding on to, what is not. Not everyone will agree all the time. We make the problem too often of thinking these things are important to our faith when they are not, then the young people become disillusioned and want to throw them off.

One of my goals in life is to preserve my families traditions for the coming generations, and folks like you are a major inspiration for me.

I can say from experience, you can learn a great deal without formal training. I will call it, learning by osmosis. When you are in contact with these things, around them, you see them, then you just understand them even if know one ever sat down and explained it to you. And I think those of us who were raised that way are better at that, I think too many people today think they need an education to learn anything, and so they don't know how to really learn -to observe, to think, to study.


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: D L Bahler] #31736 01/04/14 03:00 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone (this very cold) tonight indeed

I have a question that I need help with

--Could you replace the 2 centre cross girts in a 3 bay barn which are 24 feet long, and 10 by 12 inches in cross section (this beam was normally supported by a vertical post at the centre point)

I am suggesting replacing this setup with 2 Swing Beams to eradicate the centre support posts

The Swing Beams would be 9 inches square at both ends tapered to 9 by 16 inches at the centre points
--this beam then would be capped immediately above the tapered beam with a 9 inch square beam for its total length of 24 feet

A short prick post 9 inches square, would join the two at the centre point of the tapered beam forming a sort of a truss arrangement

This would leave the whole lower area free of any posts

Of course there would be braces at both ends as normally done

I know of two barns each with one bent containing a swing beam of this type , and the other bent containing a normal arrangement which would consist of a regular cross girt and vertical central post beneath it

just wondering if any of you could comment on my suggestion

thanks in advance

NH


Last edited by northern hewer; 01/04/14 03:06 AM.
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31849 01/24/14 02:52 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Well I have decided to continue the "Hewing Set up" thread here where I usually discuss these things and especially those that deal with Hewing in general

Previous the discussion centred around the site and supporting beams that is required to hew timbers that might weigh upwards of 2000 lbs or more depending on the specie of tree

I suggest preparing for timbers in excess of 45 feet in length as well as shorter ones, like those used in the vertical wall framing, but that is the way I see it, from my experience

The lower sill plates even in a modest sized barn will be quite large and would be upwards of 40 inches in diameter on the butt ends, and would be the first ones prepared so that the framers could proceed with their work as others are being prepared

After the first sill timber is brought to the hewing site, it is rolled onto the previously prepared hewing bed, so that the natural curve is in the direction of the side being hewn first, and the whole log positioned so that it is close to the ends of the hewing bed supports--(for those that missed my explanation of the construction of the hewing bed, I use 6 by 6 timbers partially imbedded in firmly compacted soil).

So now we have the timber positioned it needs to be firmly held in place and for this I use 36 inch timber dogs which are heated and turned at their ends and pointed nicely, for their manufacture I suggest 3\4" rod stock either round or square will suffice quite nicely

Now I am suggesting our first timber is a 38 foot Hemlock, and to secure it well at least 3 timber dogs are needed. hammered well in on the opposite side to the one being hewn

so if any questions are in order to clarify any of these steps please feel free to do so now before we move on

enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31851 01/24/14 04:24 PM
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D L Bahler Offline
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Richard,

I'm trying to wrap my mind around 40" butt end logs for sills.

What kind of wood, with what kind of taper?

I think you'd faint if you saw some of the hewn timbers on some log buildings in the Alps. Think 18 inch faces, 6 inches wide. And they got 2 out of 1 log (cut a big one and sawed in in half)
Massive logs yielded those. But I saw no shortage of 4 foot spruce (which has very little taper over a tremendous length.
Add to that, the early builders obsessed about having uninterrupted timbers, even though it actually isnt important at all in this case. (tightly fitted log walls erected on a solid masonry socket)

I like your log dogs. Simple, but effective.


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31852 01/25/14 02:44 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hello everyone tonight

Hi DL thanks for coming on board

Well I will try and respond the best I can

I am relating to the trees that grow here, I am sure that there are areas where the growth habits vary for many different reasons, even here the original white pine grew in denser growth areas and to survive had to stretch skyward quickly to get their crowns above the surrounding cover, these were lovely tall trees, and had very little taper from bottom to the top

Second and third growth pine did not have to compete in the same manner so the mature trees ended up shorter and with more lower limbs

This situation created a problem because to reconstruct period buildings it was extremely hard to obtain similar logs to work with

For a three bay English barn that I reconstructed, the lower sills were 12" square 36 feet long and were hemlock-These trees when we found them near the Quebec border with Ontario, were for our area really majestic trees--before harvesting I recorded their bottom diameters at 43" near ground level, and being unable to exactly calculate their girth at 36 feet took a gamble that the measurement at that point would square 12"--it ended up that they held their size well, and after hewing had very little waney edge to deal with

The same woodlot yielded the remainder of the logs that we needed for the reconstruction, and we also harvested a few extra just in case of a need for an extra timber--as it turned out we in fact needed a replacement timber for one of the 10" by !2" by 30 foot cross ties, due to a framing error that created a timber too short by 3"

I honestly have to admit here that I hated to cut down these majestic trees, but no doubt they were nearing their life span, and were many feet higher than their surrounding mates, making them subject to high wind damage

As one last note--what a wonderful display the hewing of these logs presented to the thousands of people that passed by, over the year and half the hewing took place--as the timbers were finished they made their way to the framing area close by so the whole story could be followed along in natural order.

As I mentioned before many Mennonite families passed by and quietly took in the work in progress, talking and explaining to their children what was happening--they seemed to really understand the spectacle unfolding--other families seemed to enjoy the hustle and bustle but from a different perspective I suspect

For ourselves the workers--being able to be part of a living history exhibit was not measureable in any way, but is an experience that will always be with me.

Splitting trees as you mention was not very often done except in certain cases, and these that I noted was floor planks in barns, split from squared timber, and sidewall timbers in log houses from very large cedar logs

pit sawing to obtain planks and boards was also practiced prior to the introduction of vertical blade saw mills, and by the very early settlers

Well enjoy

NH

Last edited by northern hewer; 01/25/14 02:47 AM.
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #31859 01/25/14 10:19 PM
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D L Bahler Offline
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One thing that I have to ask about,

We talk about "first Growth" and "regrowth" timber, and the difference between them. We talk about these things in terms of taper, characteristics of the wood, etc.

I have to ask, are we here speaking in terms of clear-cut or at least heavily forested timber, with the second and regrowth coming as new stands in a wiped-out or nearly wiped-out forest? As in, a significant portion of the canopy has been destroyed by extensive harvesting, and the second growth comes up in the midst of short, scrubby growth, or even nothing?

How does this compare to the state of a forest that is carefully managed, where trees are selectively harvested and a stand of tall, stout growth -a mature forest- has existed, but trees have still been harvested continually for centuries, just in a small scale?

The spruce timbers discussed earlier come from such a situation -forests that have been harvested for a thousands years (or 3) but have never been 'cut down' or excessively reduced. I wonder, in this situation, how the wood compares to a situation where man had never touched that forest at all?


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