Does anyone have any innovations or techniques for moving, transporting , setting up large timbers by yourself. It is just that I find myself often going at it alone and it is quite difficult getting a whole lot done if I cant get the timbers moved to where they need to be for hewing, drying, layout and cutting joints. I have a plot of a few acres of land that is a moderately rocky slope, but there is luckily the old quarry horse-carriage roads which are still clear that I can use as avenues to my site. I have a couple of block and tackles and trying to get my hands on a peavey as well, but basically any ideas, techniques for getting felled trees or already hewn timbers up off the ground and transported to the work site would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot. tb

heavy equipment

one back injury can ruin your whole day/lifetime

I'm with Chris. You can get really hurt out there, and if you're alone, it's especially dangerous, as there's no one to run for help if you get pinned. An all terrain fork lift, or even a tractor with a front end loader might do the job. Perhaps you could buy a used one, and then sell it when the project's done. For short distances, a good timber cart is hugely helpful. CB.

The first thing you could get or make is a log/timber transporter, for getting your logs/timbers out of the woods to the site where you'll cut your joinery.
One great tool is a log lifter like this:



This is a small one that can be used by hand or there are bigger ones at this site:

Click here for link to Future Forestry products.

Once at your site you can make a timber cart as mentioned above.
Here is one I made but need serious improvement:



Here is one a customer made after seeing my design and his worked much better than mine:



Once you have your timbers near your site and need to move them around you can just put a roller on top of a sawhorse like this:



With the roller attached to the base plank and the base plank screwed to the sawhorse top it makes it very stable and will work well to move timbers.

Here is a shot of us using a roller and sawhorse at a customers site to move a 7x10x22' timber off the mill and into the pile:



Once you have a set of rollers on base planks and using saw horses as bases you can move lots of heavy timbers by swinging and balancing them.

Good luck with your research.

Jim Rogers

Thanks for the tips guys. Nice pics as usual Jim and always a great help. I checked out those timber carriers and they seem great but also out of my budget at this point. Do those timber carriers carry longer , heavier timbers as well? Where could I find those rollers you use attach to the sawhorses. That is ingenius by the way.I was hoping there might be some other techniques for moving timbers that would be affordable as well but I guess you have to spend the money to save your back. I was pondering with the technique of hanging a pulley above the timber , rolling the timber with a peavey over a chain and hoisting the timber up on to a cart, and then the other side and rolling it on the carts to the site. I know this sounds time consuming but might it be a feasible poor man's transport technique. Let me know what you think as it may be another of my many newbie ridiculous innovations. tb

Hello timber brained,

They aren't cheap but a chainsaw winch sure is handy for pulling trees out, rocks to and fro and all sorts of rigs.
For the real heavy stuff I've got a 5 ton Beebe handwinch with 7/16 cable. Wintech makes them now. They are slow, but can move a whole house and can be carried into the site.
A griphoist is another option. They come in several sizes.
If you're handy, all three can be found used (if you're lucky) for cheap and can be fixed up.
Glad to hear other folks out there doing gravity experiments.

Best,

Zach

If you're going to load a cart then you'll need something to pull the cart, like a tractor. If you have a tractor you can use it to load the cart.
We made and used for many years a timber scoot. It was what the old timers used instead of a cart. A cart means you have to move the log higher up off the ground in order to get it on top of the cart.
A scoot is basically a cart without the wheels and it is a sled without sides.
Here is one I made several years ago:



This sled was not made for hauling logs.
To haul logs you would add some brackets to the outsides of the runners for some stakes to drop into.
Then after felling your tree, and cutting it to length you would position the log scoot next to the log or drag the log to the logging trail where the scoot was and align them side by side. If you have a tractor this could be done. Then using a chain or strong cable load the log onto the scoot by using what is called a rolling hitch, up some ramp blocks/timbers. You could make your stakes strong enough to be the ramps.
Once the log is loaded we would put the stakes in the pocket brackets (made of metal) and hook up the scoot to the tractor and drag it out to the roadside pile.
The scoot is constructed with pulling points on both ends so when you unload it at the roadside pile you just hook up to the back end and drag it back into the woods.
In the above picture the scoot runners are softwood and the cross blocks are hardwood. The runners have steel shoes attached to them to prevent the softwood runners from wearing out. But you have to be careful of the steel runners hitting a rock in the woods and creating a spark that can ignite the dry leaves in the wood.

We used a back hoe with a front end loader on it to lift the logs off the ground carry them to the scoot and unload the scoot at the roadside pile:



This is a shot of my backhoe carrying a long log (here in my sawmill yard). We would use this method to lift logs, thereby keeping the clean and not dragging them in the dirt, and carrying them to the scoot where we could load several logs and then drag the scoot to the pile.

Jim Rogers

This is just my personal experience.

I was in the same position as you about a year ago. I actually did hurt my back. I cut, skidded and milled my own lumber.

You need a tractor, as everyone has mentioned. Preferably a 480 or 580 Case, mine is a 310 John Deere. An older tractor is fine, you just need something with some weight and decent hydraulic power.

I had a Garage 24x24 and had to get them inside and move my timber effeciently. I ended up building a set of forks to attach to the bucket. Next I built a 16' jib out of 2x6 structural steel, that slid over on of the forks and chained to the top of the bucket. I also chained it to the edges of the bucket for stability. A hook welded to the end allowed me to use a nylon sling to move timbers. It worked excellent. It certainly wasn't engineered and tested, or anything like that, I just used common sense and was careful. I hope this helps....... good luck.

A helper and I moved 36' 8x8s on an old car axle last winter. If you are going some distance or have a rough path use ratchet straps to attach the timber to the axle. You can drill a hole in one end of the timber and tie a rope to the timber. Tie the timber to a trailer hitch in a way it can make turns but not flail around and you can tow it around your property.

Also, fixed rollers have there place, but I find wood rollers or schedule 40 pvc pipe rollers to be more useful and affordable.

Never Give Up;
Jim

Thanks everybody. I figured that there would be quite the assortment of innovations for this thread. Housewright, with the pvc pipe, is it rolling on the sawhorse or is it just so smooth that the timber glides over it so easily. Also , how does it sound to lay down several lengths of pvc pipes or smooth log cants perpindicular to the timber and rolling the timber along the smooth rounded tops of them, as the timber moves forward, bring the rolls from the back to the front and so on??? Just an experiment in the brain as of yet , but I have heard of people moving whole houses in a similar way. Of course you still have to get the timber on the rolling tubes, for which I am playing with rough axed log ramps and using peavey and timber carrier(two-man) and also possibly hoists, one end at a time. It is all just intense brainstorming now and also do not have the money for tractors or hiring a harvester to help me move them. Regardless of how it all plays out, I think that we all need to attend our needs for self sufficiency in this difficult craft and attempt to perform timber framing without the ease of modern heavy equipment. After all , one of the reasons I love timber framing is the expansive impressive spaces, particularly old barns, and what more impressive than building and moving these tremendous timbers without the modern "advances". Thanks again guys , I hope to hear more ideas from you all, as I feel that there are others out there that are on the same page as me , " defiance of physical limitations. Housewright , did you move those without a tractor on the trailer hitch or were they too heavy? I have not yet had to struggle with the large timbers and I will be in the future( 40 ' purlin plates and 24' anchorbeams as well as 18' oak posts}, just curious what I am in for as far as weight and feasibility with these larger timbers???

using an alaska chainsaw mill in the forest can save you moving all that nasty bark and wane/slabs.

once you get the big ol' pieces of wood onto sawhorses or bunks or whatever, you'll find that a timber won't roll as easily as a log. you may want to build yourself a timber wrench. imagine an open end wrench, with the opening about as big as the timbers you'll be working and a handle a little shorter than the height of your saw horse. the added leverage makes rolling heavy timbers a one person job.

rolling logs/timbers without a peavey can also be done using a 1" webbing tiedown strapping a 2x4 to the piece for leverage. this can also be done on finished pieces, eg twisting posts to where you want them.

i like the idea of creating a haul road of logs across which you drag your timbers. imagine, cutting down a nice line of trees, falling them exactly into place to create a near effortless route to drag your log/timber to the site. then start hauling from the furthest point, go back, haul the next one, the road disappears from the forest right into your timber frame.

the taunton press has a book called Timber Frame Homes, a collection of articles which originally appeared in fine homebuilding.not surprisingly they are about timberframing. it's pobably ten years old now. there are two articles which may offer advice on moving/raising timbers solo or just movin' 'em around.
rock on

I've been skidding logs with a 12hp garden tractor and a 'junkyard' axle assembly.


To move long timbers from the field to the house lot I use the axle assembly of the tractor's garden cart to support the leading end and my timber cart bungied in place ~2/3+ of the way down.


All my rollers are old steel pipe, either 1" OD galvanized water pipe or 3" ID 3/8" pressure pipe wall which works real well when slipping a timber out of a stack cribbed up on 4x4s.

That is what I have been looking to see, Raphael. Just a tiny little , low horse power tractor(almost like the homeowner lawnmower strength?) and a couple of junkyard axle assemblies. That is definitely in my budget. Chris, I love the idea of a timber wrench, at first I thought you were saying wench , but then I got it. Would you then have to have a timber wrench for each dimension of timber you are handling? I could not quite visualize the " 1" webbing tie down strapping a 2x4" that you spoke of. Could you possibly get a pic of this? Seems like a better way to roll timbers as the peavey seems better suited to roll logs. Raphael, any advice for me if I were to try to acquire similar assemblies ror carting timbers, any specifics to look for in the junkyard that may be more suitable or would any old axle assembly do well? Thank you very much for your help guys. I had gotten a bit discouraged for a moment when I realized that it may be necessary to have to use heavy equipment to facilitate my timber framing obsession. I would much rather it take more time , but with less noise and disturbance to my property, if that is possible. I was also playing around with ramps the other day lioke for a car, to roll the log up to a drying rack or to hewing height(hip level for me), but this is still just an experiment. Has anyone used "ramps" to roll logs up to a workable level?Thanks again. tb

I think any axle assembly without a differential will work fine. Obviously stronger is better. Since mine originated under the front end of a truck and did duty under a trailer after that the wheels have been welded into a fixed orientation 90 degrees to the axle. It'd be interesting to see if a self steering model would work (pulling from the tie rod ends or center with a welded tongue).

I've got my Logosol mill set up in the low end of a field and use shallow sloped ramps to get logs up logbed level. It works out quite well as the finished timber is already elevated and therefore easier to manipulate.


Another thing I make good use of is dry stacked concrete blocks to create pivot points and work stations for those really heavy timbers that threaten to crush my saw horses.

TB:
You have to consider the actual weight of the logs you think you'll be moving.
Here is an example of what I mean.
In the thread labeled "cutting out the middle man" you've said: "my largest timber would be the anchorbeam at around 10"x14"x24'(including the protruding tongues)." To get the diameter of the log you'll need to produce a 10" x 14" beam, I measured from 10" on one side of my framing square to 14" on the other side across diagonally and got 17 1/8". So that is the minimum diameter. And this timber would have some sap wood in it. A larger log would have to be used if you wanted to not have any sapwood in your timber, but that's another story.
So, now I've looked at my log rule scale at 17 1/2" in diameter and my scale only goes up to 20'. At 20' in length the estimated log volume is approximately 285 board feet. Using a log volume weight scale that says eastern white pine logs weigh 4.85 lbs per bdft that this log will weigh 1382.25 lbs.
An white oak log, at 9.65 lbs per bdft, of the same size will weigh 2750.25 lbs.
These are very large and heavy logs that, in my opinion, will be very hard to move with a lawn tractor. If possible at all.

Go out to your woods and cut down a small tree and try it.

Experience is a great teacher......

Jim Rogers

(From my experiences these weight charts are wrong and the actual weights are much higher.)

Thank you Jim. How would you estimate the same anchorbeam dimension with only heartwood? I'm guessing for such important members as tiebeams and posts, it would be wise to use all heartwood? I have been very interested in those future forestry products you suggested, they are great inventions for selective, considerate logging. Do you have any of their products? If so , how well do they work for you? Also do you think they would work as well with squared timbers? For larger logs it seems best to hew on the spot to reduce the weight of the timber you have to transport, but only if such tools would transport timbers as they can with logs. Right now it seems that I need at least to acquire an ATV and some of these arches to be able to move my trees. Do you think an ATV would be strong enough or do you still think that I will need a tractor and the larger tractor arch to move the dimensions and weights that you described? Thanks again Jim. Please let me know what you know of the arches and if you have any response to my proposed technique.

A few years ago I built a small log cabin using syp logs. I was on a very low budget so I built a small cart to move my logs. I made an A frame to lift one end of the log and slid the cart under it. I pulled the logs with a rope through the woods to my building site. They were all about 18' or more and probably no smaller than 14" on the small end. The calculator shows that at about 1300 lbs. An ATV or lawn mower should move that with no problem. Now, there aren't any hills where I live. I still had to move some of them well over 500'.

Just a comment about safety here, when using an ATV for pulling anything make sure you hook to the factory hitch, or near the center line of the rear axle. Hooking higher, like to the rack, will end up in a back flip.

Dave

Thanks guys for the continous ideas. Mike, I am not sure what you meant that you built an a-frame to lift the logs. One thing I have not yet figured out how to do is to lift the logs or timbers to my desired work height and it sounds like you were able to hoist them up on to the cart somehow? Even with these arches that I spoke about I still could not get them to a higher level that I would need for layout, cutting joints, hewing,etc.... I have experimented with rolling logs up ramps, but that is very hard work and works better with at least two people. I am trying to brainstorm on building a portable hoist frame on wheels that I could wheel over the log or timber ends and hoist them up to the desired height or to get them on carts to move them. Ideally, this supposed hoist frame would hopefully be useful also with some of the raising, but I really dont know if it will even materialize. The point of the matter is that I dont spend a lot of my resources on logging tools as I will need to save resources for timber framing tools and materials for the frame I plan to build. tb

Add at least 2" per end or 4" overall to the diagonal measurement.

That depends on the actual log. A log with a larger amount of taper would only have sapwood on one end, the narrow end.

No.....

Yes.

I don't have any experience with an ATV, so I can't give you any advice on that.

Jim Rogers

I made a big A, I think they call it shear legs, out of 4x4's. I put a piece of 3/4" all thread about a foot from the top. You can make them as big as you need them, but mine were only about 6' tall or so. I put a comealong from a tree to the A frame at a slight angle over the log and used another comealong to lift the log up and slid the cart under it. I would try and get the weight balanced so the cart was supporting the log with the towing end a little lighter but not so much that the tail dragged.

OK, I'm finaly getting in here with some pics. We use these guys and I don't know what I'd do without them!





It's amazing how much weight and old bicycle can carry!

I have dealt with back problems and have learned to lift wisely. I have sometimes found it easier to move timbers on my own rather than with the 'help' of another - the other person not knowing how to lift properly can easily wreck a spine (and fingers/toes!)
A canterlevered timber can make it's way quite a distance with stratigicly placed horses; pushing down on a timber is a lot better than lifting one up.
Good Luck!
*K

"Work smarder, not harder"

Carefully controlled balance, leverage, pivots, fulcrums, rollers, comealongs, peavies, wheels, gin poles... NOT muscle.

Practice and you will learn the skills our predecessors used every day before internal combustion. And it is amazing what can be done. You will develop an intuitive sense and the impossible becomes everyday. You will walk prouder and taller amongst mere mortals.

How much "work" does it take to purchase and maintain a front loader or forklift? Are you then working for yourself, or the bank? Does it actually save "time" overall? Maybe yes, maybe no.

As a society we have let cheap horsepower replace grace and skill and knowledge - a $4000 riding mower seems necessary only because we no longer have any idea how to get a scythe truely sharp.

There is a great video clip on "u-tube" that shows a single man working alone raising a 20 (?) ton concrete column to vertical, just using small wooden wedges and buckets of sand as counterweights.

The Pyramids, Easter Island, and Stonehenge were built without power equipment...

End of Rant. I have to go invent the wheel and discover fire. ;-)

Pete

Hi TB;

Sorry it took me so long to reply. The pvc rollers I referred to are for use between the beam and a solid surface like a well supported plank or subflooring. I have moved cut granite foundation stones with 4" pvc rollers, but solid wood rollers would be stronger. The long beams we moved were uphill from the foundation so we pivoted the beam onto the axle, secured the beams to the axle with ratchet straps, tied a rope to the axle, not the timber, and walked the timber downhill. The rope in this case was tied to a small pickup truck uphill of the timber to restrain the beam from freewheeling. The rope tied to the axlle allowed me to steer the beam around the corners and onto the deck. Having the axle almost centered allowed me to "carry" one end without much effort and allowed us a turning radius of zero. We could temporarily raise one end of the beam up over obsticles on the jobsite. If the beams were on the downhill side of the foundation, I am sure a 4x4 pickup could have easily towed them around.

Maybe you have seen a utility company truck towing utility poles down the road on a special cart. In this case they bolt a trailer hitch to the pole to attach the pole to the truck. This was the same idea.

Good luck; Jim