Recently I have realized that there are certain members of my frame that I prefer to have hand- hewn and do not have the trees to support my needs. I was wondering if it might be a bit cheaper to buy logs straight from the logger to be hewn by myself on site , as opposed to the logger bringing them to the mill and then then trucking them up to the site? It just seems that cutting out a big transfer step would reduce the energy expended and would thus reduce the cost? Has anyone ever heard of this practice, as very few spend the energy on hewing logs anymore, but it just seems that for someone like myself with little money and plenty of time, that this might be a less expensive alternative? It is not that I want to diminish the value of the sawmill as I will be getting plenty of product from them as well, but for some members the sawmill would be an unnecessry extra step. In general what might the cost of some straight logs from the logger be in comparison to sawmilled timbers from the mill? Also how much space would I need to clear for a flat bed drop-off of some long timber( 40' maximum lengths, most shorter lengths). Any response is helpful> Thanks tb

I'm not sure about NY, but in my part of the world, it is still common practice to get logs delivered straight from the forest to your home, to do with what you please, and it is by far the cheapest route to go. Usually the load will just be dumped off the side, so you would need enough room for the length and some rolling room to the side, but the piles usualy stay pretty contained. If the truck has a self loader all the better, as the logs can be dropped a little tidier. You might want to contact a local falling company to see what they can do for you...
*K

Thanks timber goddess. It is really cool to hear from a timber framing goddess as I have not yet heard from another female engaging in timber framing or even semi- interested in it. It probably is a lot more common in your area to get logs direct, as your country seems to have not strayed as far as mine from traditional technique. Seems like a broad generalization ,but I have spent a lot of time in the Northwest and B.C. , so I feel I have some basis in saying so. You are lucky to have all of that beautiful, and timber- framing- friendly Douglas fir forest to play with. I never knew why they did not plant those out here?perhaps they need that rainforest climate to grow so vigorous. Do you have an idea if I plan to hew a mostly ,if not all heartwood, 10" x 10" timber, what diameter log I would specify from the logger??How about 12"x12"? Thanks for your help, hope to hear more from you. tb

Some years ago, and the question and responses are probably in this forum in the archives sections, a friend from NY state asked about hewing a long length for his project, 32', as he couldn't get a sawmill to mill one that long for him.
He managed to acquire the log and got it to his yard himself, where he set up to hew it to size.
Now with a log of this length the butt was much larger then the tip, and it is the tip size that you'll need to get right. Using the diagram I posted in another thread you can understand that the hypotenuse of the right triangle created by the height and width of your timber is used to get the diameter of the log you'll need to produce your timber.
My fiend was concerned, and rightfully so, that if he hewed one side one day and thereby releasing any stress in the log, and hewed the opposite the next day, would the beam/timber be straight when done.
I believe he decided to hew two opposite sides on the same day to reduce the chance of stress relieving causing the timber to bow.
So, if you do acquire some long logs and want to hew them to size, be sure to understand what will happen if you do only part of it in one day.
It's hard to inspect a log and determine if there is stress in the log that will cause it to bow when released.
At my mill, I frequently see boards or planks lift up as it is being milled off the log, or shift off to one side, because of stress in the log being released. Sometimes it is necessary to only cut one board or plank off of one side at a time and then roll the log to the other side and trim one off and then roll it back to the first side to continue until you get down to the size you need.
These types of things you as a customer never see happen when you buy timbers all done.
But they may effect your hewing.

I haven't personally done any long timber hewing, and maybe other who have can give you more first hand advice, about when or how to release any stress in the log so that when you're done hewing it will be a straight timber.

A lot of it has to do with the type of wood you're using......

As far as costs reduction by buying from the logger, you may save 50% you may save more. But you have to deal with the problems you get when you buy the logs, not the timbers.

Some problems that a sawmill deals with that you don't see are metal in the logs, hidden defects, and again stress relief.

If you are hewing a log and you hit a piece of barbed wire running through it, your axe will certainly be damaged.
If you're hewing a log and you find an ant's nest in the side of the log that piece could be junk.
If you're hewing a log and you don't do it right, in order to release the stress, it could bow so much as to not be useful.

These are just some things to consider.

Jim Rogers

Thanks Jim. Many intelligent concerns you bring up to me, as always. I definitely did plan to hew two sides in one day and the two opposite sides the next day, so I was not too concerned with relieving stresses unevenly, but the logs could still pronounce themselves anyway and this definitely concerns me. I'd like to rough hew leaving a bit more than the final dimension needed as I could adjust with the timber's tendency. I really only want to hew the h-frame in my design ,which means my largest timber would be the anchorbeam at around 10"x14"x24'(including the protruding tongues). The purlin plates and sill plates at 40' long ,which would be difficult to keep straight, I am fine getting from a mill, Can you give me an idea on how a logger might determine a price for a log delivered to you, for instance an oak log about 18" diameter and 20' long? or white pine 20" diameter and 25' long? Just trying to get a rough idea on price so I dont get scammed. Thanks again tb

Hi TB-
re: your last post, I think it would be wise to go to a mill yard and check out their stock. You should be able to pick through the loads and find the right pc.(Don't forget your square!) When you find what you want, start to haggle a price, 50% would be great, but regardless it will still be cheaper. I'm not sure about oak (not much of that around here!) but the size of the tree you'll need for your timber depends on certain factors like how much if any sap wood there is. Also by wary of knots, rot pockets, checking, twist, etc. And like Jim says, always take your measurement from the tip! Someone else will have to help you with the pricing bit - I have no clue when it comes to oak.

You guessed right, I mostly work with DF, and with larch and cedar, some pine but not as often. And no, I suppose there aren't many other goddesses out in the timber world, just a handful around here...But we have many wise gods on this forum!
*K

The method used for figuring out log volume is by measuring it inside the bark on the narrow end of the log (top end) with a yard stick that has the log rule scale on it. There are several log rules scales used for estimating the log's volume of lumber. Usually here in the northeast we use the International log rule scale.
Once the log has been scaled for volume by measuring the diameter at the tip (again inside the bark) the scale is viewed on the yard stick and the length of the log determines which number, printed on the stick, is used as an estimate to log volume. The scaler also looks at the surface of the log for visual defects, such as knots, splits, rot, sweep or bow. These visual defects will help the scaler determine log grade.
Once the log grade and estimated volume is determined then the value of that log can be assigned.

There are sites, on line, I believe, where you can view the "going price" being paid, at the mill, for logs delivered. One would be saw log bulletin at: http://www.sawlogbulletin.com/

As values of logs vary by state to state and even county to county, telling you what I pay wouldn't help you to understand if you're getting ripped off or not.

If you ask a logger to sell to you some of his nicest stuff for your project, and he understands that this is going to be a one time deal, he may ask a higher price than what he gets at the mill for dealing with you, and the circumstances of trying to get his log truck up your driveway and placing the logs where you want them.
And he should be compensated for doing this, so delivered to the mill and delivered to your site could be two different prices.

Jim Rogers

How would I go about finding local falling companies or woodlot owners who would fall and deliver to me my log order? Also is there ever any kind of insurance if the log delivery is mistaken in any way , as if some logs are not the right dimension or not usable because of some awful defect? tb

you can start at the oldest hardware store in your area. ask if anyone knows about sawmills and loggers...
as far as a guarantee on delivered logs, be sure to ask up front for exactly what you need(do a carefull inspection on delivery) and also ask what can be done if an unseen defect is found. Some people will be happy to take the "defective" log to the sawmill and replace with another one, others will want the deal to be done after you inspect on arrival. Finding hidden defects is relatively common in a load of logs. Tree do not grow to fill loggers order lists, it can be quite challenging to go into the forest and find specific logs.

Thanks Mark. I think I have spent a lot of time studying the dynamics of timber framing ,but I think that surveying the timbers,logs is perhaps the most overlooked aspect. I need to really become more knowledgeable on this aspect before I proceed with my project, fortunately I am allowing my self the whole next year to acquire tools and knowledge and perfect my plan before I commence the project. Have any expert tips on surveying timbers and logs for layout?? thanks again. tb