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full dimension rafter tails #32904 04/11/15 04:12 PM
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jjboudreau19 Offline OP
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I'm in the process of designing a saltbox style timberframe house with my architect friend for myself..I'm an experienced carpenter but not experienced when it comes to timberframing, nor is he. He's gone ahead and done up a plan for the bent and it is now my job to make corrections and apply suitable joinery. Not all that is drawn is what will be, and I acknowledge that there may be some critical mistakes, so by all means feel free criticize.

He has the rafter tails at the back drawn at full size and no joinery that I've seen really accomodates this..I like the look of the step lapped rafter seat. In the applications i've seen most of the tails are just the top portion of the rafter. I wondered if it would be possible to just carve out the step lap at the very bottom of the rafter so the bulk of the timber is above the post..(if that makes sense?) Then I might able to preserve the mass of the tails.

Would it make more sense to have the rafters mortised and sit atop a post that is cut to the proper pitch and finished with a tenon? Or maybe I could notch the dimension of the post out of the rafter a couple of inches deep so it is housed?

I should mention that these tails are there to protect the strawbale/plaster that we plan to wrap the house in.

find the attached image for the plan.

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Attached PDF document
jus apr 2015 Model (1).pdf (293.39 KB, 395 downloads)
Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32908 04/12/15 02:51 PM
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Off the top of my head, and without changing much of the design.... adding full length top plates to which rest rafters on, I would cut the post top to the roof pitch, add a tenon and mortice the rafter for said tenon. Of note there is not much relish on top of the post for a tenon above the upper tie beam, consider adding a foot of post length to the post. (this will aid in adding to your brace lengths).

In addition, I would use a full length rafter on the long slope, no splice. The braces on the 2nd floor are too short. I see a mix of different length braces, to make your job of cutting easier I would standardize the brace length. You will appreciate this later.

The struts, indicated as J should bear on the foot of the king not the tie, roof load is transferred to the tie, you want to avoid this. (although the spans are small, in practice this is best). You could do away with the queens altogether, K and R.

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32909 04/12/15 10:14 PM
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Thanks for the reply Timbeal. I like, and agree with what you've suggested..I was planning on doing the braces the same size on both floors I hadn't noticed they were of a different size in the drawing til you pointed it out, thanks!

When you said "adding full length top plats to which rest rafters on" did you mean plates that run between the bents?

We originally had no splice atop the post on the long slope and planned to raise the entire bent as a whole but then thought it would be easier to do a floor at a time and do the lean-to section seperately..maybe not all that practical?

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32910 04/12/15 10:18 PM
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Thanks for the reply Timbeal. I like, and agree with what you've suggested..I was planning on doing the braces the same size on both floors I hadn't noticed they were of a different size in the drawing til you pointed it out, thanks!

When you said "adding full length top plats to which rest rafters on" did you mean plates that run between the bents?

We originally had no splice atop the post on the long slope and planned to raise the entire bent as a whole but then thought it would be easier to do a floor at a time and do the lean-to section seperately..maybe not all that practical?

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32911 04/13/15 01:06 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Originally Posted By: jjboudreau19
Thanks for the reply Timbeal. I like, and agree with what you've suggested..I was planning on doing the braces the same size on both floors I hadn't noticed they were of a different size in the drawing til you pointed it out, thanks!

When you said "adding full length top plats to which rest rafters on" did you mean plates that run between the bents? Kind of, not between the bents but on top of the post along from bent to bent.

We originally had no splice atop the post on the long slope and planned to raise the entire bent as a whole but then thought it would be easier to do a floor at a time and do the lean-to section seperately..maybe not all that practical? You could lay both rafters on the plate, if you had a plate on top of the post. By passed rafters.

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32915 04/14/15 12:24 AM
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I don't quite understand.. I thought you were suggesting I cut the post at an angle..why would I want to do that if the plate were to sit on top of them? or are you suggesting I have an extra long tenon that goes through the top plate and into the rafter that suspends beyond the top plate?

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32917 04/14/15 01:00 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Yes, my first reply is a little off. I did say "without changing much of the design". You can do this with either top plates and stepped rafter seats via principle rafters or post to rafter connections where the top plate is dropped, connecting to each post below the normal plate location, CG,s or Connecting Girts. No long tenon going through a plate and into a rafter.

Have you looked at this publication?
http://www.ncptt.nps.gov/wp-content/uploads/2004-08.pdf
Rafters on page 37 A joint your looking for on pg 42 fig. 21

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32918 04/14/15 11:56 PM
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jjboudreau19 Offline OP
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hadn't..This is a fantastic resource! Thank you!

Re: full dimension rafter tails [Re: jjboudreau19] #32919 04/15/15 10:29 AM
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hadn't..This is a fantastic resource! Thank you!


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