Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#32985 - 06/03/15 10:11 AM Barn comission conundrum
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada

Hi all!
Been asked to build a barn with a perfect combination of criteria that leave me with a conundrum I'd like to ask for thoughts on. First some details:

32x65 feet, with 65 feet flexible by a few feet. SO I'm thinking 4 16 foot bays give 64 feet, no problem. It's the other direction that's a bit sticky. They want three "aisles", a 12 foot in the middle, and two 10 footers, one on each side to give the 32 feet. Eastern Canada with local timbers, so a 32 foot continuous tie beam is NOT possible, in fact we're looking at a 16 foot maximum length. They also want useable space the upstairs(not necessarily the whole footprint), so a king post truss system or hammerbeam isn't practical. Can't do a principle rafter system either as they'd be too long. A queen post setup seems ok, but I would have to break up the tie beam, which I've never had to do before and had it drilled into my brain years ago that it was best to avoid. I know it's done though, and I was just wondering about preferred way to do this. Any additional thoughts would be wonderful!

Cheers,
Brent

Top
#32986 - 06/03/15 10:30 AM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada

Here's an unfinished schematic that doesn't have all of the elements in it (it's on my other computer) but shows the offending posts which are why a change is needed. The continuous ones that go up to the upper purlins are about 21feet and though the sawyer originally said he could handle them, he can't and buying elsewhere isn't an option (long story). It's a modification of a dutch barn, so the upper, large tie beam would have actually been a wedged through tenon in that dutch barn style.

{How do I add an image that's not from a web site?}

What if I interrupted those posts at the large upper beam, set the beam on top of the posts (some tying joint there to be decided on later) and then set the posts continuing on up to the purlins on top of that beam?

B


Edited by timberframe (06/03/15 10:36 AM)

Top
#32987 - 06/03/15 01:05 PM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
TIMBEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
You can't find some 32' white pine in eastern Canada? Have you looked into Dutch frames? An H bent down the center aisle with dropped ties off the sides. You can put a broken rafter system in with ease, join the rafters over the plate on top of the H bents.

Top
#32988 - 06/03/15 02:15 PM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: TIMBEAL]
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada
Hi Tim, sorry I couldn't load the pics in the previous post, but a dutch frame with dropped ties was exactly what I proposed, however the tall posts on either side of the middle H frame (up to the plate/purlin) had to be really tall in order to leave much usable space upstairs. The sawyer being used produces great products and I've been training him (he also has a structural beam grading license) but can't do much more than 17.

Top
#32989 - 06/03/15 05:47 PM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Hello,

I am with Tim...The first thing I thought when I read the configuration was "Dutch Barn" and I am unclear about why you would need such a huge timber anyway? Traditional barns seldom have such clear spans until you get into "truss designs" (which are very rare) and/or "bull beam" barns which are only slightly less common (not many) to vintage Dutch Barns.

On specially projects like this one can "site select" enough trees this size to achieve that span, but I would say a PE stamp is in the future for such design and would rather suggest not "reinventing wheels" and sticking with "traditional barn formats" and layouts...Like a Dutch Barn which often had 16/12 or 12/12 pitched roofs historically.

Feel free to drop me an email or call if you would like to talk more about these vernacular styles...

Regards,

j
_________________________
http://about.me/tosatomo

Top
#32990 - 06/03/15 06:57 PM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada

Hmmm, if I can figure out (or can get a pointer on) how to add a picture, I can show the Dutch style barn I proposed originally but had to reconsider when I heard back from the sawyer that the length was too long.

Top
#32991 - 06/03/15 07:26 PM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Our forum is a bit challenged for ease of use in some respects. Post photos in shared file like google drive or drop box.

As for the "big timber" aspect again, other than for some really long rafter plates in many Dutch Barns there seldom is a beam longer than 24 feet and often shorter.
_________________________
http://about.me/tosatomo

Top
#32992 - 06/04/15 08:52 AM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: Jay White Cloud]
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada

Top
#32993 - 06/04/15 10:55 AM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
timberwrestler Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 271
Loc: Becket, MA
I'm with Tim and Jay too. Sounds like the perfect solution.

Maybe you can source just those aisle posts from someone else. You're going to need plates that are longer than 16' for the plates too (for the scarfs). I would consider adding a bent, because your tie beam and joist sizes are going to be huge at ~16' on center.

I've never heard anything negative about queen post trusses. I much prefer them for simplicity in cutting and assembly over king posts.
_________________________
www.uncarvedblockinc.com

Top
#32994 - 06/04/15 11:05 AM Re: Barn comission conundrum [Re: timberframe]
timberframe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Canada
Actually, the first design I proposed had one more bent for that reason actually. Left me with a 13 foot spacing roughly which was much easier. In fact everything was great about it, and was getting ready to send it on to the engineer, but then heard from the sawyer about the long aisle posts being too much. Proposed getting them from elsewhere, but it's not in their budget.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  Jim Rogers, mdfinc 
Newest Members
mike_wood, Airspoon, paulf, Willlisak, Alecson
4755 Registered Users