Hey guys;
Thanks for being here.

I am new to Timber Framing and this may be my one and only timber framing experience. I am the kind of guy who thinks he can do anything by watching youtube videos (gets me in trouble).
So, I get this idea that I will build a patio on the back of the house. Starting with cutting down the trees, milling them into posts and then use timber frame tenon and mortise to construct this patio. The patio will have a sheet metal roof. Most all timbers will be exposed (not encased in drywall, it is an open air patio).
I have cut the trees and am almost done milling them into 6x6 beams/posts. The wood is Eastern Red Cedar. The posts/beams are a mix of heartwood and white.
Attached is the patio design that I have done in SketchUp.
could you guys please review the design and give opinions?
The only issue I am currently aware of is how the braces join the corner posts. In X-Ray view you can see that the tenon/mortise joints overlap.

Thanks for any input you may have.

Posts are 6x6
Beams are 6x6
Rafters are 2x6
Braces are 3x6 (the 6 may go larger). I am trying to figure out the length and size of the braces. I would like them as small as possible to not be in the way of entrance and exit.


P.S. I have purchased the Timber Framers book from the guild. I also have downloaded the TF Extension for SketchUp. I have not purchased the manual. For a one-time project should I purchase the manual? Also for a one-time project (of the size in the sketchUp file) should I purchase the borneman Layout Template? Which method of timber framing should I use when time and expedience does not matter Square Rule/Scribe rule/eye balling....


BobinTN

Hi Bob. Edge, square rule is simple, if your timber is sawn well. I see your bracing is centered, if you move your braces out so they are flush with the the outside of the timber you may avoid contact, the mortices will be open to each other but the tenons should miss. Draw it out to scale. A 3" thick brace stock will yield a 1.5" mortice 1.5" from the edge. You could also make the braces on the tie to the wall shorter or longer.

Six x Six timber are on the small side to allow proper joinery but will work. I can't address the loads on the roof. An 11' span in big snow areas the 6x6 may be on the small side, and I am assuming you have not let in the rafter tails, they simply sit on the plates.

I wouldn't go under 30" for the run of the brace legs, that would be a 42.4268" brace length.

Get the Borneman layout square, profits go to a good cause.

Will you be using hand tool or electric?

Here is a youtube channel to view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDyLQuBgLRA

Bob:
There is no method for this forum to host pictures. You have to find another site to host them and then insert the link here to the site to show your pictures.

There is no method for this forum to host files so we can't upload sketchup files. Sorry about that.

Jim Rogers

Square rule is simple? Easy for you to say (I will read that chapter over again). I am still in the process of cutting the timber. As far as wind/consistent dimension/wayne and such, I have not evaluated.
It sounds like moving the braces out to the outside may be the way to go. the wife insists that all the braces need to be the same size (an OCD thing).
A 10 year TN snow event may be 6". The plan on the rafter when coming against the front plate is to have a 3" deep notch (birds mouth?).
Thanks for the minimum length on the brace legs. I really don't grasp the engineering stresses of this.
I am struggling with the Borneman layout square purchase. I can be quite cheap. Which is not always a good thing.
A mix of hand tools and electric. I have been watching the WranglerStar Youtube channel, and his approach to timber framing. I am not so much a craftsman, and do/will take shortcuts.

Thanks again, for sharing the knowledge.

Jim;
I am getting the hang of this. No need to apologize. I am just glad the forums are here. i thought I had seen a SketchUp file on the site. I think I was mistaken.

Wranglerstar doesn't understand square rule, from what I have seen. I'm not sure what method of layout he uses. Of all the methods I have used, square rule is the way to go. But on a simple structure like this you can fudge it and get away with it.

On a budget you can use a framing square and be fine.

Whenever you remove wood from a beam it weakens it, even peg holes, let alone material for the rafters.

All good craftsman take advantage of shortcuts. The snaps in the video I posted are a good example.

Hey Bob, if I were to pencil in timber specs for ungraded softwood for a similar structure, then I would go for 2 x 6 rafters on a 12 foot span at 16 inches on center rather than 44 inches o.c. and limit 6 x 6 beams to an 8 foot span, so 6 x 8 seem more appropriate and 7 x 7 for posts. The other issue is ERC growth character, forest grown logs are of prime importance, ERC grown in an open field is likely overly knotty trash.

I will also recommend sticking with basic layout tools, the Big Al is fine but gives no great advantage on a small starter job. Put the money in better wood and design.

TIMBEAL;
"simple structure like this you can fudge it" -- I was hoping for such an answer, because I am sure there will be compromises.

your comment on the rafters, are you saying that I should do a different approach?

Roger_Nair;
The ERC is forest grown with nice straight trunks with no large branches.
You are scaring me on the dimensions you recommend (I have tried to get mostly heartwood in the posts/beams). The diameter of the trees do not support 7x7s (mucho wayno). 6x8 with a good bit of non-heartwood.
I can, and will, decrease the rafter spacing.
Is there some type of stress test i could perform on my 6x6 12' beams? Perhaps hanging a weight from the mid-point of the beam?

You can see that I am grasping here to keep the original design. Do to limited supplies and what has already been cut.

Would anybody else like to weigh-in on the 6x6 12' span? Do not want to start any arguments. Maybe somebody has done a 12' span with 6x6s.

Hi Bob, yes, I would not cut into the 6x6 for rafter housings. Cut your rafter seat cuts and screw them onto the beam.

Rodger has some good points.

You could put two posts under the plate, reducing the span. Sure, drive a truck onto the beam and measure the deflection. support it at the ends, then ask yourself if this is acceptable.

As for the Big Al square, I use mine for various tasks, and as I pointed out in my first response the proceeds go to a good cause, guild funds. Invest in the guild and get a slotted square out of the deal. When using timber with wane the square is invaluable for getting around those round corners. I use it to reference from, a flat surface on which to rest a framing square. In addition to the mortice layout it is great for dragging lines around a timber. I sometimes wish the fence was bigger, we have one that was adjusted to have a bigger fence for wane.

Engineering question:
When you say unsupported span, do the Braces count as support on a beam span?
In my case, I am wanting to span 12' with a 6x6 beam. Each side has a knee brace that is 35" out on the beam. Is this considered support for the beam? Should it be considered?