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#33646 - 04/06/16 09:23 PM Brace for barn cross beam
gtmerkley Offline
Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Saint Anthony dubois county IN...
trying to repair my barn and I'm having trouble finding what I need. I have a horizontal beam that poled away from the post.The tenon must have been gone since the last repair I need to find a way to put bracket, to connect the post to the horizontal or cross beam as I call it. I T is under the hay loft and I have the loft boards removed, I have the cross beam jacked up in place but need to move the post in away's to get it back together If I could find something I could mount and use to jack up the pole using the cross beam and a come along. I was thinking of bolting a piece of chain to the sides jacking it all up and bolting a T bracket or a U to the post but got to get it together first. and I don't know ware to find A T bracket big enough the timber is about 10 square at home depo there brackets aren't big enough for a dog house. I would thank you kindly for any advice. On how to do it or where to get the parts.

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#33647 - 04/07/16 05:51 AM Re: Brace for barn cross beam [Re: gtmerkley]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 479
Loc: Vermont
Hello GtMerkley,

Well, that is a relatively common challenge with older barns...especially if it has gone through a spell of "disrepair."

First, I want to be very encouraging, that these old structure are often more than repairable. I grew up working with Old Order Amish Barn Wrights not to far from you just North In Charleston, Il back the 70's and 80's...so have seen many a barn and repaired then...

Now...for the next part of this post...that may not sound so helpful...

As a Traditional Barn Wright...and...now relatively well heeled general Timber Wright...I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't speak honestly (as I have come to learn it in my experience with historic buildings) that it is really difficult to provied solid (and safe) advice for such repairs without actually seeing the structure and all the mitigating condition that very well could be affecting the frame...including things that can go awry because of or during the repair....Pictures at minum is a "must have," to even begin any rational diagnosis and solution advice.

...DISCLAIMER...

I also do tend to lean on the side of caution with such advice as this...as I may or others may share. I have come up with a few "safety margins and protocol" for sharing such guidance in these circumstances...

One of the first and foremost, is whoever is doing the work (or guiding you in the work) should have a minimum of 20 years experience in...actual....Historical Restoration practices...especially timber frames. There is a huge difference between a "band-aid" (aka temporary ..."historic conservation work"... that must be reversible without damage to the historic "fabric" of the architecture)....and....(hopefully!!) their work is also backed up (and/or overseen) by structural Engineers (PE) that work on timber frames.

IF...they don't have that type of support and/or background...then, the PE is a must have or the building and occupants can well be in jeopardy life and or structural compromise before, during and/or after the "repair."

There are many out there doing "repair work" that is anything but "a repair" and is definitely not any kind of grade or form of "historic restoration/replication" in practice or form. We find many of our barns (and historic buildings...thanks to DIYERs and shows like "This Old House") that have all manner of "steel plate"..."chain"..."lag bolts"..."jacks and concrete" and other..."not so nice"... things done to them that may "appear" sound, or..."a good idea"... yet often is nothing more than a "psychological repair"...not a tangible one that actually is structurally taking the proper loads.

I am glad you came here for advice...Good of you to do so!!!

Before I forget...I am putting to organizations besides the TFG you may turn to for additional guidance or supporting advice:

The National Barn Alliance

Indiana Barn Foundation

So, in closing, feel free to reach out to me "offline" if you care to chat in more detail, ask more questions, or explore this further in other ways...

It sounds like you are on the right track thinking about it, and it is (or sounds?) repairable, but I can't really say without much more detail and documentation/illustration. I can say that the "current repair"...not restoration...approach is probably not how I would do it. I would want to replace the tenon with "like species," have it into good and solid wood, inspect and augment where necessary the receiving mortise and house as this beam appears to be taking more than just tensioning loads...so working from the outside of the frame is also warranted I do imagine...

I do more than understand...budgetary constraints...and as such would probably go with a more robust (Larger) and perhaps "awkward looking" approach call a "conservative strengthening" that is both historically and easily reversible. These often are actually really fast to do, less expensive, but can be "bulky and esthetically" not what folks expect...However, they get the job done and make future..."actual restoration"...much more plausible and/or easy...

Good luck...if you can post picture great...feel free to email or call...

Regards,

j
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http://about.me/tosatomo

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#33648 - 04/07/16 07:53 PM Re: Brace for barn cross beam [Re: gtmerkley]
gtmerkley Offline
Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Saint Anthony dubois county IN...
Thank you for your advise.and I will check out the two links, For the last 50 years my dad and I have done the repair. But I am much more adapt at repairing log structures. The log barn burned about 1912 and was replaced with the frame barn so I'm kind of at a loss on some things as dad if gone. But I remember what he thought me about jacking and repair But I also remember his other saying there are no dumb questions except those that aren't asked. Thanks and I will try posting some pictures

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#33649 - 04/07/16 09:05 PM Re: Brace for barn cross beam [Re: gtmerkley]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 479
Loc: Vermont
If you can do log work, then this is within your "wheelhouse" of skills.

I am "overly cautious" when attempting advice without knowing someone's background or skill sets...I figure falling on the side of "too much" information (and caution) is better than otherwise...

Your father's familiarity with the frame is indeed a loss (sorry for that...) yet I am sure, since coming to this forum, sound guidance can be had for the taking...where you care to or need to apply it...

We're here for anything...

Cheers,

j
_________________________
http://about.me/tosatomo

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#33650 - 04/10/16 10:02 PM Re: Brace for barn cross beam [Re: gtmerkley]
northern hewer Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 1095
hello GT Merkley

your post is very interesting, and one that I believe is fixable with an inserted new tenon

It sounds to me like the original tenon on the end of the horizontal has been broken, rotted or sheared off

I have repaired just such problems by preparing a tenon of the proper size to fit the existing mortise, sliding it through the mortise in the vertical post from the exterior face, and continuing to slide it on into a new channel chiseled into the end of the horizontal timber, of course the same size and thickness of the new tenon, and I am suggesting a length of 16 " into the end of the horizontal timber for good stability

If there is any rot forget about it at this point

once in place pull the whole unit together with what ever means you have, so that the horizontal fits neatly into the seating on the vertical post, once in place bolt or use 1.5" wood pins to secure the new tenon in position--5 through the horizontal and 2 through the vertical no doubt the old holes in the post still remain, if so use the size originally used

This type of repair using wood pins, will not be noticeable and will effect a repair that might even be stronger than the original attachment

I hope this helps

You should use experienced help to facilitate the repair

NH


Edited by northern hewer (04/10/16 10:05 PM)

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